Our Community

Welcome to gay men going deeper. This is a podcast where we talk about personal development, mental health, and sexuality. Your hosts today are Matt Landsiedel, Calan Breckon, and myself, Michael DiIorio and collectively we have over 40 years of experience in the personal development world. And if this is your first time listening to us, we want to welcome you to the show.

We each have our own coaching practice. And in this podcast, we’re giving away all of our best stuff. This is our 19 ninth episode of the podcast, everyone. So three chairs almost at a hundred. Yeah. So for this episode, we’re going to be talking about our community. This will be a little bit of a more personal episode because we’re going to share our shared vision for the community that we’re co-creating here together,

Matt, Calan and I, and our moderator team and how we’re doing that. So we’re going to be talking a little bit about why building this community is important to each of us or going to share how we’ve each changed from the beginning to today. And then we’re going to share one thing we’re really excited about co-creating in the future. So we’ll be continuing this discussion the last Thursday of the month in the gay men’s brotherhood zoom hangout.

This is where we give you guys a chance to share your own thoughts on the topics we discuss here on the podcast. So make sure you join the private Facebook group and check out the events tab to RSVP. Also reminder that this podcast and YouTube channel is listener and viewer supported. If you enjoy what we’re creating here, you can support us by heading over to our Patriot page and contributing to the show,

depending on what option you choose. We’ll even send you a t-shirt as a thank you. So you can also subscribe to get early access to episodes on apple podcasts. If you’re really looking forward to our hundredth episode, all of your support helps us continue making content for you and supporting our community. So we thank you in advance. And finally, please check out the seven day trial for the gay men going deeper membership.

If you’ve been curious about joining now is the time to check it out. The membership includes two courses, healing your shame and building better relationships over 35 coaching videos. So head over to gay men, going deeper.com to register today. And as we do in our regular tradition, let’s read a review from one of our viewers. This comes from YouTube and from the subscriber named eight on the episode of self-love with Madden Jerome.

So he, or they say great conversation. This made my day guys beautiful insight and a strong take away from me. May we all return back and dance through our life in our beauty, just as we are with no substitutions, bless all of us. Well, wonderful work to Roman that thank you. Yeah, it’s really nice to hear that. So thank you H for leaving my comment and for the rest of you guys,

if you want to shut it on the podcast, please go ahead and leave us a lovely review either on apple podcasts or the YouTube channel. Okay. Let’s jump into our community today. So to set the stage for the discussion today, I want to briefly share with all of our viewers listeners out there, what exactly is the shared vision for our community here?

And then I’m going to briefly explain how we’re implementing that vision, looking at the queer community from the outside, looking in, I’m sure a lot of people can resonate with us. It’s branded as an inclusive community. Yet once we’re in it, people will quickly find out that it is effect, fight exclusive and can be quite lonely. So what we want to do here is changed that the three of us,

Matt Callen and I have been working together for over two years, which blows my mind guys. That is crazy. That’s a long time. Yeah. We’ve been working together for over two years on this shared vision of elevating the dialogue within the gay community, all three of us in our own ways. If you’re a regular listener, you know how we’ve all experienced the superficial reality,

the lack of deep, meaningful connections and the loneliness that comes with being part of the gay community. It’s rampant as a whole. And it’s not just us because a lot of the people within our community have found us because they’re experiencing the same thing. So everything that we co-create here is anchored to this vision of creating a community where we can feel more comfortable to be ourselves.

We can have deeper connections with one another and ultimately feel less lonely. Now, I don’t know if the viewers and listeners know this, but over the two years, Matt count tonight, meet every single week to execute on this vision. There’s a been a few times where we have, we’ve taken some time off, but we have met pretty much every single week to execute on this.

And I just want to also add from people out there who don’t know this, that we each have our own coaching business separately, that we run them on our own separately. So the work that we do here together is in addition to that, I think it’s really important that people know that. So let’s go into the three main ways that we are executing the vision for our community here.

The first one is with the gay men’s brotherhood Facebook group. This is the private Facebook group. Currently I checked today. We’re at about 5,600 members. And this group is for you. If you, if you are looking for inspiration, support, connection, healing, and a safe place to show up just as you are in the group each month, we have a feat.

So we’ll get together and we’ll decide a theme for the next month. So we’ve recently, we’ve had spirituality. We’ve had sex this month as a community. And that theme that we decide dictates the podcast topics that you guys here today. Also it dictates journal prompts. So every Wednesday within the group, we post a journal prompt that is related to that theme.

And we ask open-ended questions that are meant to inspire conversation and connection amongst the community members. And then on the last Thursday of the month, we host the zoom hangout, which is basically a sharing circle facilitated by us here and the moderators where you guys get to share your experiences about that month’s theme. The Facebook group is also where you will find our in-person events.

A lot of people don’t know that we are actually now doing in person events. So if you’re curious about that, go over to the Facebook group, go over to the events tab and see what we’ve got going on. And we have, we have hosted events in Toronto, Calgary, Atlanta, and other cities as well. So if you’re curious about that,

check out the events type in Facebook, speaking personally, it is my belief that there is literally nowhere on the internet where you will find this many gay BI curious people who are interested in the topics that we talked about, personal development, mental health, sexuality, spirituality, et cetera. I have not seen it at all. At least not to this level of quality that we produce or that we show up,

right? So another way people can think about it is a peer to peer support group. I’ve been in peer to peer support groups for gay men. Listen, guys, this is different. This is, this is a different space coming from a much more grounded and authentic cultivated from a more grounded and authentic space where we even, the three of us are allowed to show up,

make mistakes, learn, and grow, right. It’s really where we’re setting the example and we’re being the example. So yes, you can think of it as a peer to peer support group every day. I see guys joining this group more and more each day from all over the world. And what we see is they’re practicing courage by joining they’re practicing vulnerability,

by introducing themselves, asking advice, sharing their experiences, and then inspiring each other and having their peers support them and inspire them. Now, of course, it’s not all roses. We do have some heated discussions and heated debates, which we think is a good thing. And we actually want that to happen within reason within boundaries. And we have an amazing moderator team that does a great job in keeping things simple.

Okay. So that’s the first way. That’s the first way we’re building our community is with the Facebook group. The second way is with this podcast again, 99 episodes, I’m just still in awe that we’re at 99, actually. You know, what, if there are any listeners or viewers out there who have watched or heard all of our episodes, and I know there are some of you out there,

because if you’ve told me that I want you to go to the YouTube channel and introduce yourself, tell us who you are. If you’ve watched or listened to all of these, we want to know who you are. So the podcast, the game and going deeper podcast is how we want to broadcast our vision out into the world. What’s great about this podcast is it is extremely accessible.

You can watch it on YouTube. You can listen to it on pretty much any podcast provider we’ve made it very accessible to you. And this is where we want to demonstrate having the kinds of conversations that we all, all three of us were missing before we started this podcast. So we’re putting this out there. We’re showing up each week and talking to each other and other people about the podcast.

And we deliver it in a way where we want to kind of be the example of how conversations with other gay men can be. Our goal here is to keep it real, keep it raw. What that means is that we do not edit any of our episodes. We post them and we release them even with all the blunders, even when colony had a fly,

even when I messed up the intro, we post it all the time just to keep it real for you guys. Okay. And again, another thing I love about this podcast that I think makes it different from other podcasts is we have our discussions, the three of us, right? Matt, Cal and I every other week. But we also have an opportunity to have invite guests onto the show that represent other aspects of the community that maybe we don’t represent.

And that gives it’s twofold. It gives them the platform to share whatever they want to share. And then it gives our audience, you guys greater variety and options of ideas and people to be exposed to. And we think that’s a wonderful thing. We’re not here trying to monopolize your time. And you’re listening and viewing ears and eyes. We really like having guests who are aligned with this vision and bringing them onto the show.

Okay. So that’s number two. The third way we’re implementing our shared vision for this community is within the gay men going deeper membership. Now, the membership is the only one of these platforms that is a paid platform. You can enjoy the podcast and the Facebook group without ever paying us a cent. But of course, if you do want to pay us a little sentence,

show some love, go over to our page from page and you can support us. But the game is going to keep our membership is for the people out there who really want to apply the concepts that we talked about here. The membership came to be about a year or so into the podcast and the group when there was a desire and a need from,

from people within our community who wanted to take things further, who wanted that personalized support, who wanted more of us, of Matt Callen and I, and our teaching. And so that’s where the inspiration for the community came from. So when you access the community, you’ve got a bunch of amazing things. You have access to our two courses that we have so far healing,

your shame and building better relationships. And there will be more courses coming. We also run group workshops for these courses so that you can learn in a group setting with other people who want to learn this. And we facilitate those discussions in the workshops. So you learn, you study, you come to the workshops, we talk about it with your peers.

It’s really a beautiful way to learn. And it really, in my opinion, up levels, your ability to digest and relate to the material. It’s not just consuming content. Also, you have access to an additional zoom call for members only. So we have the zoom call in the Facebook group, but then we have another zoom call in the membership.

So now if group isn’t your jam, that’s totally okay. We’ve got you covered. We also have Allah cart coaching videos from all three of us. So you got maths videos, accounts, videos, you get my videos and all the content is divided under three main pillars that we thought were the most relevant challenges that gay men have, which was developing self-confidence relationships,

body, positivity, and community. So whatever you’re looking for, we’ve got you covered with videos from all three of us on all four of those topics. This membership is great for people who love group, but it’s also great for people who want self study and want to learn and actually get some coaching content for you also, it’s great for people who honestly just want to taste of Matt calender,

I, and our style and how we coach and how we teach. A lot of people will say, okay, I’m not quite sure if I’m, if I’m into this, so we’ll join the membership, get, get a flavor of it and see what they like. Again, I do not believe there’s anything like this on the internet that is specifically designed for gay men.

We created it by gay men for gay men at this price point at this level of quality where you have access to three amazing coaches with three very unique and amazing, beautiful, helpful flavors. Okay. So there you have it. That’s a rundown of our community, the Facebook group, gay men’s brotherhood, the gay men going into your podcast where you are right now,

and then the gay men going deeper membership. So now that I’ve laid the land of our community for you guys, I want to turn it over to my wise and wonderful co-hosts and co-creators might I add, so guys, the first question I have for you is why is building this community important to you? And I will start with, from that Great,

amazing intro. I was like, whoa, that’s so cool. We’re doing so much great stuff. So, and you articulated it extremely well, so good job. Oh dear. Yeah, this, you know, I think my main objective in all the work that I do is to elevate consciousness. I’m an empath. That’s why I was incarnated into this life.

I came here to elevate consciousness of humanity and alleviate suffering. And I have suffered a lot in my life. I’ve talked about it a lot on the, on the previous episodes and being gay in a lot of internalized homophobia and a lot of unprocessed and unresolved shame was a lot of my suffering. And I was very triggered and activated by the community because I saw in others what I had yet to work on and resolve within myself.

So when I started to do this deep inner work and sort of to taste liberation and healing and have a capacity to connect vulnerably and intimately with, with people, I started to bring that into the community because these are the people I wanted to connect with. They’re the people I wanted to have intimacy with and have great sex with. And I started to notice that there was an aversion to that.

Like I was showing up in this, I would say more healed aspect of myself, not fully healed, but, and there was a lot of men that weren’t able to show up like that because of shame and because of fear of rejection and all the things that I was struggling with and still at times can struggle with. And so the community for me,

it’s, it’s really important to me because it’s a container where people can come and practice those things, vulnerability, intimacy, connection, authenticity. And, you know, my, my hope is for there to be more depth because my experience of the gay community has been quite hollow. There’s just a hollowness to it. And I hate to generalize because I’m not speaking of the whole community,

because the thing about community is that everyone has an interpretation of what the community is. Right. And for me, the way I was experiencing it was hollow. And I’m, I like to think I’m, I’m the opposite of that. I, I have a lot of depth and I’ve always been like that. I’m a deep thinker. I’m philosophical. I love to look for the meaning behind things.

I’m a truth seeker. And I was just really struggling with the superficial reality of, of the community. And so that to have this space, it’s, it’s, it feels like more in alignment to me, it’s more my TRIBE. These are my people. And it’s amazing as the consciousness on the planet kind of increases and elevates and people find more interest in,

in spirituality and psychology in these things, we’re seeing growth, right? And our community is not growing very rapidly comparatively to other communities in, in, on the internet. Right. Like I would say one of the more slower building communities, but the thing about it, like you said, a lot of you use the word a lot in the intro is quality,

right? We have a, we have a quality that is on like any other thing that I’ve seen and I’ve experienced. Yes. I’m the one that’s defining what that word means. Quality. Right. Cause it’s quality to me. So I don’t know. I just, I just really am excited about, about having a community where I feel like I can just belong and I don’t have to fit in because I did that a lot in my life.

I, I didn’t, I people pleased and I, I tried to fit into a community and I betrayed myself, you know, I’d go out drinking every weekend I’d party. I would do drugs. I would, I would have, I was very promiscuous and I would do all the things that the stereotypical gay community wants us to do to fit in.

And it led me down a path of total darkness, a really bad addiction, betraying my body by having sex. I didn’t want to have these sorts of things. So now I don’t feel like I need that because I’m getting my needs met. I’m finding community, I’m connecting with people. And the sense of belonging is probably the biggest thing. Because if you look at all the things,

trauma, shame, grief, all the things we’re healing as gay men, I think they’re healed in community and then community offers us belonging and a safe place to land. So that’s why it’s important to me. Yeah. Beautiful. Thank you for that. Share calendar. You still saying no, I’ve just going to apologize in advance people. They’re reeling in my buildings.

So if you can hear to really, sorry. I did not plan this, did they did not tell me, so I’ll probably keep mine kind of more short and sweet today, but the reason this community was so important to me is because I’ve been on this path for such a long time. Like I’ve been on this path. Gosh, since I was like 20, 22,

somewhere around in there where my dear friend, Heather Panell, she introduced me to like sound healing and spirituality and all these other things that kind of blew my mind. And I went to go and do like full moon meditations, that kind of like that hippy-dippy stuff where it’s like, you know, people can look at and be like, that’s weird. But like,

I really enjoyed it. And it was just, it was about community, right. It was about people coming together and just being in community and like relaxing and meditating and like things that are good for you and like having positive conversation and really just building each other up instead of tearing each other down. And so I’ve been on this journey for such a long time that I never saw that in the gay community.

Like I saw that in the community in it’s small kind of pockets of like support group here or something over there, but nothing collectively that really opened up to the whole community. And so when Matt and I, when Matt was on my podcast feels a million years ago now, and we had this conversation of like, where is this community? Like, you know,

we should create it. And then Matt went and actually did it because I was just like, yeah, sure. Cause I saw the difficulty within the gay community. I saw that we can be so stubborn and set in our ways and we have so much trauma and wounding and shit that we just attack everything that does not align with who we are, what we want it to be.

And we can be fucking vicious and brutal sometimes. Like we really can, which is ironic because we are looked at as like this accepting piece, love rainbows community in LA. And like, we just had pride and it’s so good. And I’m like, and there are those aspects and it is great. And I love pride for my own reasons. And I think it’s because I ha I did all of that work to get to who I am to be happy and comfortable with who I am.

Like I can still go out and party on a Friday and get shit faced and have a good time and maybe have a hookup and do all of these things. But I’m no longer doing it from a place of insecurity or like all these unspoken things I’ve gone through that kind of like, what would you call like the dark night of the soul or whatever kind of vibes.

And I came out and I’ve learned a lot of the things I need to learn and I’m still learning, but I’m learning different things now because I’ve gone on that journey. I don’t need to repeat that. And so I want to be able to provide that for other people where it’s like, you don’t need to push so hard against things that it’s like,

you just need to learn how to communicate with them. You just need to learn how to communicate with yourself and be happy and confident and stable with inside of yourself. And being part of the community really allows us to teach people those aspects and teach people those things of like, well, this is how I did it. And then hopefully this can help you on your journey.

And we all have different flavors to our journeys and we’ve all experienced different things, which is why it’s so great because we do have all those different aspects to it and being able to have, you know, I love, love, love the way that we do our podcasts, because it allows us to, you know, have these round table conversations. But then we also interview people and we each have our chances to interview different people.

So we also bring our own flavors that way and we bring new guests that way and it just keeps the podcast lively and exciting because it’s not just the same thing over and over and over again, like there’s such variety to it, which I really enjoy. And I really love. And so being able to provide this space that I’ve never seen online before,

which is why, you know, me, Matt talked about it a hundred years ago. Cause it’s like, well, I’ve never seen that. And I want it to be able to be part of that journey to provide that space to people like I had when I was first kind of figuring out like myself and personal development and spirituality and like, what did I want them to mean for me?

Like what aspects of things did I want to experience? And so now this is the best way that we’ve come up with in order to provide that out there. And the podcast is great because so many people listened to the podcast and they’re like the, maybe the, the bystanders who met might not be in the community aspect of it on Facebook, but they still get the information and that’s still important because then they take it out there into the communities and wherever they are,

which is all over the world, literally all over the world, they can take this knowledge into their communities and start being the change that they want to see, which is one of my biggest mantras is like, you know, be the change you want to see in the world. And so this is me doing that and it definitely comes with its own big of shit.

People definitely attack us and throw their own, you know, stuff at us. But that’s kind of part of the experience and part of being the ones who are willing to stand up and say, Hey, we want this in our community. We want to have this safe space for people to be able to grow. And if we’re the ones who have to do that,

and you’re going to be all the masses yelling and shouting at us and throwing shit at us, we’re still going to be sitting here waiting whenever you’re ready, if whenever you’re ready to come and hang out. And I think that that’s the really important part because I re this video that I’ve watched is coming back to me where there was this child crying and freaking out.

And the dad was just sitting there waiting for her to calm down and he wasn’t freaking out. He wasn’t yelling, he wasn’t doing anything. He was just sitting and waiting and it took a while, but eventually she calmed down and she crawled into his lap and it was just this crying. And then they had a conversation about it. And I feel like that’s the people who attack us.

They’re the infant child. Who’s just freaking out because, you know, whatever happened to them or whatever their story is. And we’re just sitting here patiently being like, we’ll be here when you’re ready. If you’re ready, whenever you’re ready, if you want, you know, and it’s being able to provide that option to people so that they can go on that journey in a safe space so that they can go,

okay, I’m not the only gay person or the gay, you know, LGBTQ person who wants to experience this, who has experienced this, who wants to have a deeper meaning in the community. And that’s not just the topical I have abs I look great. I’m, you know, all of these aesthetic things that advertising has told us or that the community has been thus far and bringing in more of that diversity and saying,

no, we’re all different. And this is just one aspect of us that we think can help evolve that story. So that’s why it’s so important to me. What about you, Michael? I know you said a lot. Yeah, Yeah, no, it’s beautiful. I think there’s so much of what you guys both shared about, you know, why it’s important to me as well.

I think that’s why we worked so well together and we’ve been doing such a good job is because our stories though, different have a lot of those common themes, right? Like how we are, how I related to the gay community before I can draw a clear line in the sand with the after and how much more nourishing my experiences now than it was before,

before it felt very like it was draining my energy. Whereas now it actually, for the most part, it gives me energy. So yeah, there’s a lot of what you both shared that I, that I want to just underline, but I, I don’t want to repeat it. So I guess I’ll just add my own little piece on it, which is,

you know, why is this, why is building this community important to me? I mean, yeah, you guys kind of set it all. So I think in addition to, in addition to that, if we rewind into my journey and my, my relationship with the gay community before GMB, before the brotherhood, before the podcast, I was running a wellness blog called Woolies milk for gay men that launched in 2019.

And I was working in my corporate job at the time, but I felt this need has, I always have in my life to contribute something to this, to the community, to the world. I always have this deep need of contribution, how that looks. I never quite knew. So each week I’d make a post about either something on mindset or spirituality or sexuality.

And since then the blog has evolved into a full-blown coaching practice. It’s still called Wally’s mill, but at its core, it’s the same thing. It’s it’s I wanted just like you guys said to carve out a space within this community where we could talk about things that are not the usual and there’s nothing wrong with sex and partying and all that stuff. I do it too.

I love it. It’s great. But my thing was like, yeah, but there’s more like, okay, that’s nice. That’s great. I love it. Give me all the sex, give me all the parties, but what else is there, right? Where others, where are those philosophical discussions happening? So for me, when like it’s part of my own individual need for contribution to represent this other side of gay culture,

inner strength, vulnerability, authenticity, courage, all the things we talk about here. So then I was kind of doing this on my own and on an island over here, 20, 19, 20, 20. And then when Matt invited me to co-create this community, it was an obvious alignment for me like, oh, of course. So, you know, I know that you could achieve a lot more together than you can alone,

even though I deeply wanted to do it alone. I knew that if my goal was ultimately to, to help people, then it was far, far better to do this together. So, I mean, I had a lot of trepidation at first, which we can talk about in the next question, but I knew that this was for me. So yeah.

That’s why it’s important to me. So the next question goes perfectly into this is I, I talked a little bit about having trepidation at the beginning and I’ve come a long way since then. So let’s talk about some of that. Let’s talk about how you’ve changed from the inception of the idea from the beginning of this podcast and the community to today. And let’s start with Madigan.

It’s been two years, you know, I think back on how I was emotionally, because I thought that’s, that’s the journey for me really? It’s an emotional one. So how I was showing up emotionally two years ago, there was a lot of anger. I was really, really angry. I was angry at myself for betraying myself and, and trying to fit into a community that it wasn’t me.

I felt like an alien and, and I just pretended to be a human amongst when I was feeling like I wasn’t. And so there was a lot of anger that I was projecting that anger onto the community and seeing people engaging in the ways that at the time I was rejecting and maybe not allowing myself to engage in because I was going through this period of like where I was for most of my life,

very hypersexual, very drug addicted, very party boy. And then I shut that part of me off. And I was in this world of trying to heal all this stuff and I felt very alone. So I think just all of this anger was being projected. And then underneath all this anger was, was significant amount of loneliness, a significant amount of shame,

disappointment, disconnection, just like everything, like all the things that we don’t want to experience as human beings. I was feeling them, you know, in very, very deep ways. And, and I knew that something for me had to change. So like even like just starting this community, it wasn’t like I healed myself and then started this community.

I literally got myself to a point where I could tolerate just barely tolerate being in community. And then I did the healing within, right? So my healing has really happened over the last two years in this arena, in this arena of like working with gay men, learning how to be conscious with other gay men and learning how to be authentic. And,

you know, as you can imagine that brought up all my stuff, everything, everything was brought to the surface over the last two years around, I think one of the biggest things was the lone Wolf stuff. Like I was very, very lone Wolf and majority of my lone Wolf, the motivation behind my lone Wolf was fear, right? Fear of rejection,

fear of judgment, fear of criticism. And I got the medicine I needed, which was criticism rejection and judgment. I got a shit ton of it. And I think it’s normal and it’s natural for people who trailblaze. And I’ve been like this for the most part, most of my life. Like I usually say the things in a room that nobody wants to say.

And like, so I’ve, I’ve, I’ve gotten that. I’ve gotten that energy from, for most of my life. And, you know, you think about somebody who’s like blazing a trail, like they’re literally getting whacked and like hitting getting thorns in them and stuff like that’s, that’s just part of it. And I needed that. I needed that medicine and I learned how to tolerate the things that I was being controlled by,

which was the rejection of the judgment and the criticism. And when you experience well, when I experienced significant amounts of, of that, it’s something happened to me. Like I went through this period where I was really depressed and I, I went into even more lone Wolf energy because I didn’t want to deal with that. I didn’t want to have that,

but I was constantly being called on stage, so to speak. And I am the type of person that if I’m being called on stage, I’m going to go on stage, even though I’m completely terrified, right? Like I will always feel the fear and do it anyway. And so I just kept rising to the occasion and the end result, which is where I’m at now is just a lot more humility,

a lot more compassion, a lot more understanding for the struggle, like truly for the, for the struggle and how difficult it is to be a gay man in this world. And the, like we’re not set up for success in any way, shape or form. Like we’re set up for a lot of shame, a lot of attachment injuries, a lot of loneliness.

And now I’m just, I don’t know. There’s just something that’s different. Like humility for me is just such a, a big theme right now. And I’m not putting all this pressure on myself anymore. Right. Because I am more humble. And when I’m in a humble energy, I’m, I’m, I’m giving myself permission to make mistakes, to get it wrong,

to get angry, to project, to deny, to do all the things that before I was, I was denying, I wasn’t letting myself have those experiences and now I just really own it all. So I think the best way to describe where I’m at is, would be humility and authenticity. I’m just very real I’m I feel very congruent how I show up on the podcast and how I’m,

how I’m front-facing is how I am in with my mom, my dad, like I’m just very, very consistent across the board. I don’t feel like I have to wear masks anymore. So, and I really love that. I love the fact that I can show up and be that be the transformation that I’m, that I’m trying to teach and trying to inspire the world into I’m I’m I am it right.

I’m living it. And by no means, is it complete? I think it’s a lifelong transformation and I’m going to always be in indulging in the yumminess of authenticity. So I feel honored. I feel honored that I get to trailblaze and I can feel honored. I get to do it with YouTube. So yeah, Love that. And can I also say,

like you watching your journey, like there was a lot of attacking the happen when this first started, there was a lot of projection and attacking from other people being like, how dare you do this? And it was just like, you took the brunt of a lot of that because, you know, you were the one who like started and, but like the way you navigated that to where you are today is like,

I can just see that. And it’s like miles different. Like the community has settled, but also you’ve settled as well. Yeah. Thanks Kaelin. Eat that up. So how have I changed? I don’t, I don’t know. I think my confidence in being a leader has grown hugely, you know, from doing like the group zooms and like being like quote unquote,

onstage and like on, I didn’t love that. And I used to think it’s weird. I used to think I wanted that. Like I used to think that I wanted to be the center of attention, like everybody and that had got it. And I was like, oh no, I don’t like this. And so I learned that I can enjoy that,

but you know, I think I learned that my strengths are behind the scenes and that I really, really enjoy that. And it’s not from like a place of hiding it’s from a place of like, no, this is just where I genuinely love to be in excelling. And I think you guys have seen that, that, like I do all this stuff behind the scenes and I love doing it.

And it like makes me happy to do it. And I don’t necessarily love doing all the front facing stuff, like doing the podcast. I love doing this because it’s kind of like, it’s us three and it’s just hanging out and talking. And I think I love it because it’s the deeper conversations. It’s not like the surface level stuff. And sometimes I feel like being out there on the stage,

it’s a lot of surface level for me. Cause it’s like the same conversation again. Or it’s like, and, and maybe there’s something there that I need to unpack, but like, I really have learned like what a lot of my own personal strengths are, and I’ve gotten confident in those things. And this has been a safe environment for me to learn and to grow with those kinds of things.

But I’m going to turn the tables. I want to know what you guys think has like, has changed within me. I’ll say first thing that comes to mind is a softening. Yeah. Like my first experience of you was definitely like a bit of a harder edge. And I think that hedge has since softened, not just with me, but like just as I see you interact with others,

I just sense there’s this greater softness to you. If that makes sense. I can hear that and I can feel that for sure. I definitely was a spiky person. That’s for sure. Thank you, Michael. I would say similar. And, but funny thing is, is we, cause that’s about was where a lot of our conflict came from because we both were spiky.

And I think, you know, I’ll speak for myself. I don’t want it, so I don’t want to speak for you. But like for me it was trauma. Like I couldn’t feel safe. Right. So it’s like I had my spikes out because I had to be on defense all the time. And I, so our spikes came together and we,

but that was our softening. I think, you know, we softened each other in, in, in a lot of ways, but I think this, I want to speak more to the softening because I experienced you now is more like easier access to your emotions and easier access to vulnerability, right? Like just, I would say like the second half of the podcast,

like from 50 onward, like there has been more displays of you just being authentically genuine around your emotions. And, and it’s been really nice to experience that about you. So, and I got excited yes. To the leadership, to like your leadership is I think we both actually have learned, we were managers and we’ve learned how to be leaders. Right.

And it’s letting go of control being more flexible. So these are elements that I’ve noticed in you as well. Thanks to that guys. I thought that it’d be More fun to, to get those perspectives. Totally. I think that, I agree. All right. So I guess for me, it’s a little bit different. I think the way I want to answer it as kind of looking at where I was in my own thoughts and feelings at the time,

and if you guys recall the idea of a podcast, scared the shit out of me, I was like, I had all the resistance. It was like, like the, the it’s funny, the, the ego part of me was saying no, but the spirit, the quiet voice within you, it was it. Yes. It just knew.

And that’s why, that’s why it was like I had to, I had to go with it. You guys didn’t have to convince me. I knew it’s like, Michael, this is the way if you want to contribute, which I have. I remember before all this, before starting my coaching business and everything, I kept saying, I want to contribute.

I want to contribute, you know, God show me the way I tell me what I have to do. And then here was this, here was this thing. So it was like, fuck, okay. I guess this is not what I had imagined, but sure. So, so my transformation has been working on my own imposter syndrome. If you guys recall,

I remember telling you at the beginning, like I got some insecurity, cause I felt like I’m coming from a background of the corporate world. Yes. I was doing leadership coaching there, but it just, it wasn’t the same. It wasn’t the exact same thing. And so I just felt like, oh my gosh, maybe Matt made a mistake. Maybe I don’t belong here,

all these things. So I had to work through a lot of that. And I will say, thank you publicly, because I’ve said things privately to both of you for holding me through that and, and really giving me the space to flourish and shine. I feel very differently about that, about that. Now still, I still have a little bit of the little butterflies in the Tony before we jump on.

But overall I’d say I’ve come a long way. So yeah, it’s that fear of visibility for me, you know, it’s, it’s, I think it’s part of my soul curriculum. I came here to, to contribute. I know that, but in order to contribute, I need to be seen. So I think that’s part of my journey working through my imposter syndrome,

working through my own insecurities, feeling the fear and doing it anyway, effectively practicing exactly the stuff that I preach and the stuff on the on. So it’s great for me. I think it makes us all better coaches because we are in our own ways, as we just shared going through the transformation, not set it very nicely in the word that the contained right,

where we’re, we’re going through our own stuff in this container. And then we’re taking the wisdom of it and bringing it out into our, into the world. So yeah, that is, that is, I’d say how I have changed the most from inception to now. Okay. And before we wrap up to the guys, one final question, this is a fun one.

What is something you are most excited about co-creating together within our community, in the future? Matt, let’s start with you. Well, I would say in-person energy. Like I have a, such a strong network of gay men, but they’re not, I don’t live near near them. Right. Like I haven’t even met you too. Right. So that’s what I’m really craving.

And so a retreat would be probably, I think the next thing I’m going to push for, I know, come September, we’re going to reconvene and figure out our direction and what we want to do moving forward. And for those of you listening, email us at info at gay men’s brotherhood.com. And let us know if you know of what you would want,

what what’s your vision. But I could see us hosting a retreat somewhere and bringing whatever 50 guys together and doing healing and, and adventuring and doing all the things and just really letting our spirits come together. Our hearts come together. And because I think that’s what the world’s craving right now. I think people are, are kinda zoomed out and I’m zoomed out.

And I would just, I just want hugs and I want eye contact and I want all the yummy things that come with being in person with somebody. So that’s what, that’s what I, that’s what I see as far as co-creating, I would like to create more courses as well. Like you said, Michael, and just keep on building our library of content for people to evolve and grow and heal and do all the things.

So that’s that? Well, I knew Matt was going to pick the, the retreats things. So I’ve taken this in a different direction and I’m, I would love to see us like maybe like sponsor, like party events or something like edging our way into the norm, like the gain norm and kind of getting in, in a space where guests feel comfortable so that they can then see us and realize,

oh, this is what’s going on over here so that we can be like, we embarked it too. We can have a good time too, but we can also have these deep conversations. It’s like you were saying before, Michael, there’s the there’s the before times where it’s like, you were doing all that and it’s great for what it is and you can have fun,

but there’s more, you know, and so I would like to see us take that into those spaces and say, and here’s the more, and I know that that happens when you go to people who, where they’re in their comfort space. And so like maybe hosting parties or hosting events, like, you know, wherever that is and, you know,

kind of branching out that way. I think that that would be something exciting that we could do because then people can have like the parties, the good times, you know, have a couple of drinks and whatever, and then still have the space because they know, oh, this is a safe space where I can also have these deep conversations as well.

Yeah. I love the hand. I love the end, like fun and all that. And also this, I mean, I feel that way about me, about how I can present to the world. Like, oh, people will see the, the party boy, but like they have no idea how much more there is to me than that. And I think that that’s a very good point,

Colin. So that excites me. And also of course, what Matt said super excites me too. So I’m really happy that both of your shares got me, got my little tingles going. I would be very happy and excited to cook. Great. Both of these and, and my answer is kind of the same that Matt had shared, but we talked when we first started this retreats where like,

or, or in-person Hangouts where like we’re at the top of the list, but then COVID was a thing. So here we are. So I think that to me has always kinda been on the back burner and has always been something I’m really looking forward to exploring with you guys in a co-creative sense. And you know what I think now that I’m not that I’m considering it.

I think maybe we have to do all this other stuff first in order to build the most incredible experience, because now what we’re talking about is creating experiences for people, you know, top to bottom. So I think that we had to go through this together to learn each other’s isms, to take each other’s needs into account so that whatever we do create down the road is going to be just beautiful.

And I think that’s, I think that’s our path. So that’s, that’s my answer for what I’m excited about. Co-creating do you guys have anything you want to add That like our next episode is our fucking 100. I can’t believe we’ve been doing this for what a hundred episodes. That’s crazy. Right? That’s two years episode. One episode a week.

Yeah. Crazy. Crazy. I hope that I, I do want to hear honestly, from the listeners and viewers who have listened to and watched them, cause I know you guys have reached out to me, but I want to know who you are for anyone out there. Who’s like a diehard fan. We would love to hear from you. Yeah.

I can’t imagine listening to myself for that many hours. Okay guys, are you feeling complete today? All right. Awesome. Well, thank you guys so much for joining today for the viewers listeners. Thank you for tuning in to our 99th, please, please watch us and listen to us for our very special hundredth episode. Next week. If you like what you heard today,

please leave us a review and give us five stars. If you’d leave us a lovely review, we will read it in one of our future episodes. And as always check out the show notes, to see how you can support the show and learn more about the game and going deeper membership and the Facebook group. And I want to say thank you again to my lovely co-creators and co-hosts Matt and Callan.

We’ll see you guys next time.