Empowered Bottoms

[00:00:00] Michael DiIorio: Welcome to Gay Men Going Deeper, a podcast by the Gay Men’s Brotherhood that showcases raw and real conversations about personal development, mental health, and sexuality from an unapologetically gay perspective. I’m your host, Michael DiIorio, and joining me today is Pepper from the Gay Good. Pepper has been a guest here since several times before, and I chose him for this conversation because I think Pepper is someone who truly gets gay culture and isn’t afraid to have those bold, unfiltered conversations that matter. So, Pepper, thank you so much for joining us today.

[00:00:40] Pepper: Thank you so much for having me. I believe it’s my fifth time here, which makes me really happy. I’m so honored to be here. It’s my favorite podcast, so I still get a little tickled each time you ask me to be here. I can’t wait to get into our discussion on Empowered Bottoms.

[00:00:55] Michael DiIorio: Yes. I’m so thrilled for this topic. So, yes, today’s episode is called Empowered Bottoms, and we’ll be discussing things like the different types of bottoms, power and control in the bedroom, what it means to own your pleasure without apology, advocating for yourself and setting boundaries and sexual health and feeling good in your choices. Ultimately, guys, this episode is about flipping the script on outdated, bottoming stereotypes. This episode is the antithesis of bottom shaming. But regardless of whether you’re bottoming or topping, versing or siding, this episode will give you a fresh perspective on sex that really helps you feel more confident and in control. And unapologetically, that’s what we are all about here on this podcast. If you’re new here, if this is the first episode you’re stumbling upon, please do subscribe to the channel on YouTube if you’re watching us, and if you’re listening to us on your favorite podcast platform, please subscribe and leave us a review which will help us get into the ears of people who need us. Okay, I like to start off these episodes by giving you guys a bit of an idea for why I wanted to do this and my thoughts behind this episode. And my reason is that I talk to a lot of different guys. The nature of my job and just my lifestyle is I talk to a lot of gay guys in the world. Different parts of the world, different backgrounds, and even in different contexts. I find it very surprising that even in 2025, bottoms still have this reputation of being submissive or passive, timid even, and that the top is always the one in control and has to be the one calling the shots. But my friends, there are a lot of bottoms out there who are not demure, we are not cutesy. We know what we want. We are not afraid to get it, and we are the empowered bottoms. This is obviously a play on the term power bottoms. On purpose. I chose that. But you need not be a power bottom to be an empowered bottom. These are two different things. Now, of course, you can be an empowered power bottom, but you don’t have to be. Okay? And I’m going to help you differentiate these two terms. A power bottom is how you bottom. It’s the way you do it. So taking charge, calling the shots, being assertive. You know, you have a high stamina and no limits on how much you can take. The focus is on the how. Focus is on the action. While an empowered bottom is more about the why. It’s about owning your choices, your pleasure, your boundaries, knowing why you’re doing it and really owning that right. So you can be strong and assertive, or you could be soft and sensual. You could be dominant. You could be submissive. You could be playful, passionate, Everything in between. It’s not about the how, it’s about the why. So the good news is, any kind of bottom out there, any flavor of bottom, can be an empowered bottom. So I’m talking to the power bottoms, talking to the bossy bottoms, talking to the subs, the bratty bottoms, the greedy bottoms, the lazy bottoms, and even the sides, okay? We can all be empowered in the way we bottom. So think of it this way. A bottom goes along for the ride. A power bottom is driving the bus. An empower bottom is choosing the destination, picking the playlist, and ensuring the ride is enjoyable, regardless of whether or not they’re driving. So that’s how I would describe empowered bottom in my own words. But I want to hear from Pepper. Tell us, in your own words, what does it mean to you to be an empowered bottom?

[00:04:18] Pepper: First of all, I love that car analogy.

We’re calling this shots where we’re. We’re making a left. We might take the wheel sometimes. To me, an empowered bottom is someone that truly allows themselves into bottoming and they kind of break up the stereotypes or the illusion or the picture that we may think or society may think, gay society may think. When we think of the word bottom, whether it be images that’s continuously reinforced through porn, through X, through blue sky, through Instagram, it’s about adding your own unique flavor into it. Whether you said that’s someone that’s a little bit more assertive, someone that’s a little bit more feminine or masculine, it’s whatever that Means to you, whatever makes you feel more confident, more comfortable, more safe, more ready. Whatever gets you to open up. You know, bottoming, there’s a mental game, there’s a whole physical game and we’ll get all into it. But to me, being an empowered bottom is ease you get away from the, the fear and the, the trepidation that might be there. At times, the idea of I’m not doing this right or I’m not looking the right way or, oh, I just have to do everything the top says because I’m the bottom. I’m being a good boy. But you can be a good boy without being disrespected. You can be a good boy. You could be a great bottom without putting yourself in actual positions or theoretical positions that aren’t things you would typically want to get into. Being an empowered bottom, to me is truly owning your sex and not apologizing for it. I feel like sometimes when even declaring or stating your bottom, it’s like whispered. Yeah, like you said, there’s still some shame in the community about, you know, saying I’m a bottom, but, well, averse bottom if we want to get into it. But bottom with a capital B, I’m not shameful to say it. I like taking dicks and I’m not going to apologize for it. Um, and that, to me, that’s what being an empowered bottom is all about.

[00:06:34] Michael DiIorio: And this is why you’re here to talk about this topic.

Um, and that’s a really good point too. Right? Like, just, just so that we’re clear, everyone, like, just because I’m calling you a bottom doesn’t mean you’re always a bottom. You could be first bottom, bottom first, anything you want side. Right. Like, it’s really not necessarily just about that, but we’re really focusing on that, that specific part of gay culture or just world culture that there’s like, it’s like topping is better than or greater than, or more masculine or more dominant or just better than bottoming bit. And like I said at the beginning, it surprises me that that’s still very much even in gay culture, like a thing. So do you notice that where, where you live, Pepper, do you find that that’s still, there’s still these stereotypes and myths and misconceptions about that?

[00:07:12] Pepper: Yeah. As a reminder, I live in West Hollywood, so yes, I, I see it all the time. I think it goes back to wanting to be more traditionally masculine and that the more effeminate role, that’s how people see it, is often shamed. Yeah, I definitely still see bottom shaming in the community and not just in person, but through memes that are shared. Usually the bottoms are, no pun intended.

[00:07:41] Michael DiIorio: The butt of the joke.

[00:07:43] Pepper: And, you know, it’s lazy, it’s tired, It’s. It’s very 2004.

[00:07:48] Michael DiIorio: Yeah, we’re moving on from that.

[00:07:50] Pepper: We’re moving on.

[00:07:51] Michael DiIorio: I find that it’s a lot of, like, a physicality thing. Right. Like, it’s. It’s really easy for us to, like, look at somebody and, like, want to know, or assume this person’s the bottom. This person’s a top. Right. Or even verse. But for whatever reason, people want to assume one or the other.

[00:08:04] Pepper: Like, are they a top?

[00:08:04] Michael DiIorio: Are they bottom? And the assumption is if someone is big and muscular or hairy or like, masculine looking, they’re going to assume that they are the top. And so when they come out and say, oh, no, I’m a bottom, then it’s like, what it’s. And at the same time, there are femme tops. We call them blouses. Have you heard that term? Yes, yes, yes. Yeah. Fem tops. Yeah, they’re the feminine version of a mask top. So again, that’s, again, flipping the script on, you know, gender and how you present versus the role you are in bed.

[00:08:36] Pepper: Absolutely. I think another thing that comes into it, you mentioned size.

[00:08:40] Michael DiIorio: Yeah.

[00:08:41] Pepper: That reminded me of a little story from a couple months ago where one of my younger coworkers who identifies as a bottom was saying, you know, I want to get into topping, but I can really only top guys that are. Are smaller than me. And I’m like. And he said, do you think that’s toxic? And. Well, first and foremost, I think toxic is way overused. But I told him, I don’t think it’s toxic. But listen, you’re young. I think I used to have that same idea because that was the image always implanted in my mind growing up with porn. And, you know, what you see in the clubs is that, you know, typically the. The top is more muscular and larger and taking control of a boy who’s perhaps a little bit more slender. And I told him, you know, it takes time to. To gain confidence in topping, but it really just comes into you one on one with someone and what you can get into together and what sides of each other you can bring out. Thinking of it as, I can only bottom for guys that are, you know, larger than me, or I can only top guys that are smaller than me that will just limit you sexually and probably end up in sex that’s not as fulfilling because it sounds like you’re already very much in your head.

[00:09:50] Michael DiIorio: Yeah. But there are instances where, like, that could be something that you know you want and that is coming from an empowered place. Right. Where, like, I, I only want to be in this role with these kinds of people, not out of fear, but because, you know, I’ve, I’ve tried it and I’ve tried many things, and this is just really what genuinely turns me on. How do you just. How do you distinguish between both?

[00:10:09] Pepper: I think it’s the why. From what you talked about in our intro today, it’s why am I doing this? Why am I seeking it out? Am I seeking this out? Because this is what I’ve seen and this is what I believe is the role I need to be filling as a top or a bottom. But if it comes to. No, this is what I actually want. I’ve learned my turns ons and my turn offs and what gets me excited and what I’m comfortable with and the positions that I’m comfortable with. That’s a little bit different. And I think that comes from a little bit of experience, maybe a little bit of setting our egos aside, trying new things. And if you’re a bottom that likes to be totally dominated by people twice your size, power to you. Glad you figured that out. And I hope you’re lining them up if that’s what you want.

[00:11:00] Michael DiIorio: Yeah. I think that the common, I guess, misconception, if you want to call it that, is that submissive equals weak. But that’s not at all true. I’ll speak for myself. I can choose with a certain partner. I’m like, oh, I want to be submissive with this particular person. And that’s my choice. I’m choosing submission. I’m not defaulting to it. And I think that’s how I distinguish it. Whereas some people just default to that role because they think they should or because they might not be confident or whatever the reason might be, but I choose it. So even if this person is, like, dominating me in bed, I’m like, is it really dominating me if I’m. If I’m getting what I want out of this? I’m getting exactly what I want out of it in that case. Right.

[00:11:37] Pepper: Yeah. No, well said. You don’t. You’re not the same bottom every time.

[00:11:40] Michael DiIorio: Right.

[00:11:41] Pepper: Unless you want to. Unless, you know, this is. This is my shtick and this is what gets me going. But like you said, you can have a different flavor with different partners. Different partners bring different flavors out of you. No pun intended. There. But it’s all about picking and choosing, leaning. It’s a give and take. So you can be sensual, like you were saying with someone, and then be a little bit more assertive with someone else. There are sides of me that come out with certain partners that I didn’t know were there. I have a bro y side at times, which I think would shock some of my friends.

And then I have a more submissive side with certain partners, and then one that’s a little bit more equal, I’d say, in the bedroom. And it all depends on the why with that partner and what’s authentic to what’s going on between you and that person or those people in the room.

[00:12:35] Michael DiIorio: Yeah. This is one of the things I love about sex for me personally, is that I’m already, like, maybe it’s my Gemini ness, but, like, I’m already a man of many faces and many. I can adapt to lots of different situations, and the same applies for me sexually. So as you were saying, like, there’s times I want to be in a very intimate, close, sensual, like, deep, emotional lovemaking session. And there are times that I want to be, like, dominant, more in the top energy, and I want to lean into that for me. And then there’s times where I want to be more of the submissive one. And, like, it really depends on the flavor. And that’s what I encourage everyone out there is to be like, taste all those flavors, see what works for you, own what does, and also own what doesn’t, and set those boundaries. When something is not working for you, just be able to say, this is what I like. This is what I don’t like. I feel like this today, but that might not mean I want the same thing tomorrow. Right. It’s. Sex can be very fun that way. It’s really about tasting all the flavors of the rainbow.

[00:13:26] Pepper: Well said.

[00:13:26] Michael DiIorio: And I think sex is psychological for me. I don’t know about for you, Pepper, but I really can get a lot of pleasure out of the psychological game, if you want to call it, of sex. So if I’m going to bottom, letting the top think he’s in control, letting him think he’s calling the shots, playing. It’s almost like role playing. Like, I’ll play the role of being a little demure, but, like, in my head, I’m like, I’m. I’m actually calling the shots here. Like, I’m the one who’s in charge. I’ll make you think you’re in charge. But, honey, no, if I’m getting Exactly what I want out of this. I’ve orchestrated this whole experience, and the beauty of it is we’re both getting what we want. That’s what I’m saying. Like, the real win, the best sex is when both people are getting what they want out of the connection.

[00:14:05] Pepper: 100% agree. As a Gemini myself, can totally relate. And, yeah, absolutely, there’s mind games that go into it. And I don’t mean, like, dirty mind games, but mind games in the. Oh, you thought you were the dominant one here, but I’m actually getting you to give me exactly what I’ve been needing.

[00:14:23] Michael DiIorio: Yeah.

[00:14:24] Pepper: So who’s actually in charge here? And I think it’s really fun when you can flip the script a little bit and perhaps have a little bit more of a dominant role with a partner that typically does have the dominant role. Sometimes saying something like, oh, yeah, is that all you got? Really, like, change the scene, you know what I mean? And challenging things and, you know, adding a different flavor or je ne sais quoi into the bedroom. And I think that’s, like you said, what makes sex fun and what makes someone a good sex partner, someone I’d be looking forward to seeing again, is the fact that there can be a little bit of range. Now, if you know someone, you know exactly what you’re gonna get with them every single time. And again, that’s what you want. Amazing. Hallelujah. Keep it coming. But if you’re looking for a little bit more variety and you find that with some partner and you can change the type of bottom that you are each time. Not. Not a lot. Little nicks and variations here and there. I think that’s really exciting, too.

[00:15:24] Michael DiIorio: Yeah. If there was one misconception or stereotype that you would just love to smash when it comes to this, what would it be?

[00:15:33] Pepper: I had one misconception or, like, a.

[00:15:36] Michael DiIorio: Stereotype that you think we just need to, like, put behind us once and for all?

[00:15:40] Pepper: Sometimes I. I think people think bottoming is not a lot of work life. Some. You’re like. Well, you’re just laying there. Or like, I. You heard the term, like, pillow princess or whatever.

[00:15:50] Michael DiIorio: What’s that tell us?

[00:15:51] Pepper: I’ve heard it used as, like. Well, you’re just. You have a pillow under you. You’re. You’re just there, like, taking the dick. You’re. You’re just along for the ride. And I’m like, are we. Are we forgetting that taking a dick is not easy?

[00:16:04] Michael DiIorio: It, baby. It’s a feat.

[00:16:05] Pepper: It’s an achievement. It’s. It’s it’s a miracle.

And I think, you know, the terms like lazy bottoms or pillow princesses are. That in itself is lazy. There’s a lot of work and oftentimes prep that goes into making this happen and finding the right angle. When I’m bottoming, I like to present myself, you know, with the best foot forward. So there is a lot of time, whether that comes to shaving or moisturizing, some stretching beforehand, sometimes to make sure I can perform and I feel comfortable switching positions quickly or whatnot. And that is a stereotype sometimes that I think drives me a little bit insane is that when people say, well, bottoms aren’t doing that much, bottoms are changing the world.

[00:16:53] Michael DiIorio: Okay, that’s right. On that note, let’s give our audience a chance to chime in here. Right? So if you’re listening to us on a podcast or if you’re watching us on YouTube, tell us in the comments how you would define what it means to be an empowered bottom, not a power bottom. We know what that is, but what is an empowered bottom to? If you are digging this conversation that I’m having here, I invite you to join my seven week virtual men’s group that is starting April 3rd. The topic is Sexual Empowerment 101. I have run this, I think four or five times before, and I’m running it again. It’s very popular. We meet on Wednesdays for seven weeks, and the purpose of this men’s group is to elevate the conversations we are having about sex and sexuality. It’s candid, yet educational. Each week we cover a different topic that has its own little workbook. Topics include sex, positivity, masculinity, porn and masturbation, body image, intimacy, and sexual health. You’ll also have the chance to get coached by me on any specific challenges you’re facing. So if you’re craving real conversations with real guys about these topics, similar to what Pepper and I are having here, this is a facilitated group. This is not locker room bravado. Nor is it conversations that are steeped in judgment and shame or just leading with our authenticity and vulnerability. And as I said, it’s my fifth time running it. It’s always a great group of guys. I’m always so pleased and surprised to see the different types of people we get in there from different backgrounds in different parts of the world. It is virtual, by the way. We have a good time. If you want to meet some new people and have these powerful conversations, please do join us. I cap it at 15 guys because I like I like a small, intimate group usually is more effective for the kinds of conversations I want to have. So if you want to join us, the link will be in the show notes. If you’re not sure about it. Cause I know it’s a touchy topic for a lot of people, just send me an email or DM me and I can give you more information. All right, let’s pepper talk about what does it mean to be an empowered bottom? Like, what exactly do empowered bottoms do that other bottoms might not?

[00:18:46] Pepper: I would say first and foremost, empowered bottoms advocate for themselves. It can be really easy to get caught up in the fact that I’m being a good boy. I’m doing whatever the top says, even if it hurts. You know, I’m fulfilling this role. And I’ve been guilty of that at times. I’m sure we all have, especially in my younger twenties of powering through when things were hurting, which can lead to fissures, can lead to pain, can lead to, you know, bloody experiences. So speaking up, communicating, verbalizing discomfort, saying that hurts. Asking, can we try a different position? Um, or this is the position I like to start in because it makes things, you know, start running for me. Even if it comes down to turning on or turning off the lights, whatever you can do to make yourself most comfortable. Because at the end of the day, you’re the one that needs to relax in order to. To open up and to allow for penetration to begin. If that’s where things are heading, which things don’t need to head that way. Even when it comes down to what the top is saying. I’m someone that’s pretty verbal, so I like to get into dirty talk. I think that’s really fun and silly. But sometimes a top may say something that isn’t a turn on and is actually offensive or a turn off, or they’re just using a word that irks me or I really don’t find sexy. So saying, can you please not say that, whether that’s during the session or afterwards if you’re going to see them again, or saying, hey, I really love being called this, or I really love when you call my ass this. It’s a big turn on for me. Advocating for what you want. Going back to preparation, saying, hey, I need 15 more minutes. 15 more minutes is. Might be a little annoying for the top who’s, you know, ready to party. But for me, that could really mean the difference between being a little hesitant and timid and maybe tightening up at the beginning or going in knowing I’ve done all of my work and letting whatever happens happen. So I think advocating for yourself physically, emotionally, within the vibes in the room, the words being used in the room is really important to me. Makes an empowered bottom. Someone that’s not afraid to take a little bit more of ownership in their sex and make sure that certain things are happening or are not happening for them.

[00:21:12] Michael DiIorio: Yeah, those are all great points you had mentioned with respect to the verbal aspect. Saying something during or after. Would you ever do it before? Like before things start?

[00:21:21] Pepper: Yeah, absolutely. Especially with newer partners trying to move away from. Actually, we’re not trying to move away from this. Trying to move away from newer partners. We’re trying to tighten up the roster over here.

Just so all you viewers know, um, sometimes when messaging someone, let’s say on Grindr or Sniffies, which I do use from time to time, as mentioned, I like to be verbal. So sometimes I’ll ask someone, are there certain words you like being called? Or I’ll even offer like, hey, I really like being called this just so they know. Maybe, maybe to use it just a suggestion. Not the end of the world if they don’t. But if it’s gonna be a new scenario with someone and we know we’re just meeting for sex, you know, we’re meeting to hook up. I like to give as much information as I can without maybe overloading or pressuring someone. But just a few things here and there that are exciting for me or, or get me going. Like, good boy is really hot to me. I think it is for a lot of bottoms. So I, I make that known.

I think most people are pleasantly surprised that I’ll have that conversation and I will get feedback from them. Like, actually, I’m not into that, into saying that. Or I don’t like being called daddy though. Concede that. So I think sometimes advocating for yourself early or stating some sexual preferences. Turn ons and turn offs. And we’ll start a conversation that can lead to better sex with someone you’re hooking up with for the first time. So it’s not just like a guessing game. And that can also be applied to do you like biting? Do you like spankings? Stuff like that. Do you like choking? I don’t like being choked at all. And some guys will just go for that right off the bat. So if I’m talking about turn ons and turn offs of someone before meeting in the bedroom, I always make sure to mention, please don’t grab my throat. I will probably gag. And not in a cute way. Yeah, in a desperate way.

[00:23:20] Michael DiIorio: Yeah, that’s such a good point. I think for me, I agree that if possible, like this isn’t always the case, but if it’s like on an app or something, you can have those conversations ahead of time. And I’m pretty open minded in general, but so it’s easier for me to say yeah, I’m good with everything except like don’t do this, this, this, this or this or don’t call me that. For me, the verbal stuff, that part doesn’t pretty much anything’s game for me verbally. But if I have some kind of boundaries with physical stuff, I’ll make that known ahead of time. Especially if I’m going to be bottoming and if I’m topping, I’ll do the opposite. I’ll say is there anything like that’s off limits? Tell me that. That way I know the container in which we’re playing here. Sometimes I think that’s easier than saying here’s all the things I love because I have a long list.

[00:23:59] Pepper: Yeah, good for you.

[00:24:00] Michael DiIorio: Yeah, boundaries is such a key element. So boundaries, knowing what you want, knowing what you don’t want and saying it, being able to express those boundaries. I think a lot of bottoms historically, again the stereotype is you don’t really get a say. Like you’re just kind of there now again unless you that’s what you want to do. Like in my earlier example, that’s great, but I think a lot of people in general have a hard time with boundaries. What has been your experience in like learning how to advocate for yourself? Like what’s a tip you can give?

[00:24:29] Pepper: I think a tip I can give is just to be unapologetic with it. Sex is such an intimate, special thing. You’re sharing your body with someone in that moment. So it can be scary at times to, to advocate for yourself and to state some boundaries. But at the end of the day, I think what would be more scary is to be having sex with someone you, you would feel like you can’t fully trust and you can’t fully, you know, give yourself to. As awkward as it may be or it may sound to someone who’s not used to advocating for themselves to start asking or to start sharing some preferences and some do’s and do nots. I’ve only found it to lead to, to better sex and to ease my, my worries when meeting with someone, especially if it’s a partner that that’s newer and if that means that if they listen to my, my preferences and they’re not down for it that means that we are no longer compatible and that we won’t be having sex then, then so be it. I’m remembering this time where I had sex with this guy and he was particularly rough. I was bottoming. I was so caught up in the moment that he was so hot and I’d wanted to hook up with him for a while that I didn’t really notice how much things were hurting and like, flapping and hair pulling and whatnot until afterwards. And then I went to have sex with him again probably three weeks later. Things were starting up in sort of the same manner. A little bit more aggressive than I like to play. And I started telling him, you know, that actually really hurts. Can you please tone that down? And he said, well, well, last time we did this. And I just bluntly said, well, this isn’t last time. We’re going to need to stop doing that. And you can still pull my hair a little bit. I mean, it’s long for a reason.

Like, have at it, kid. But, like, to the point where I can feel individual strands being pulled out of my hair, that’s for me, unacceptable. But if that works for you, live your truth. But ultimately had sex with him that second time, he didn’t find it as enjoyable because he felt a little restrained. I guess I didn’t want to continue having sex with him because of that disconnect. Whereas he wanted to be a little bit more forceful than I wanted to play. Um, and I didn’t feel like permitting that. I didn’t have that trust with him. I didn’t enjoy his response to me advocating for myself. So ultimately lost that partner. But, hey, we’re still standing. Yes, multiple partners since then that I have been able to have great discussions with and ultimately for me, better sex with, because we’ve established open lines of communication before, during, and after sex.

[00:27:11] Michael DiIorio: Yeah, that communication is exactly the point. Like, even during, like, it doesn’t have to be like, you know, earlier I use the word boundary, which is a very big kind of scary word. But it’s really just about communicating. Like, oh, yeah, I like that. Keep doing that. No, that’s not so hot for me. Can we try something else? Like, during sex will make the whole experience better. And if you’re with someone who’s open to that, obviously they want to pleasure you, they want to pleasure themselves. You want to pleasure them. You, like, there wants to be pleasure all around. The best way to do that is to speak in the moment. Like, more of this, less of that. Let’s try this offering Your own suggestions. That for me has been when sex has been the best. And then we kind of. Because I can’t read your mind, right? You can’t read my mind. So when we have a little bit of that. And then also you can communicate by moaning and groaning. Like, these are all really nice ways to say yes, more of that, honey. Without actually having to speak the words.

[00:27:56] Pepper: Absolutely.

[00:27:57] Michael DiIorio: What about sexual health? This is a really big topic. I think I teach that sex positivity. Part of it is sexual health and really knowing what’s going on out there. Owning your choices, owning your body, owning what you do with it, how you have sex, any precautions you take, what you take. So what is your stance on being an empowered bottom and sexual health?

[00:28:18] Pepper: Yeah, starting off, I think sexual health even begins when. When prepping. I didn’t know for a long time that I was over douching. Um, and I was telling my friends, does douching take over an hour for you? Sometimes an hour and a half. And they were looking at me horrified, shocked, in tears. Like, what? They’re like, what do you mean it takes that long? I’m like, yeah, it always takes that long. I never learned how to douche properly. I guess when I was in my earlier 20s and I didn’t realize I was putting too much water and it was going into my colon, and that’s why there was so much coming out, and it took so much long for, I guess, the water to run clear. So I think being educated on that was a big game changer for me, and it made me one more ready for sex and less worried about a potential accident. Also, over douching can lead to different issues as well. I didn’t know about that when I was younger. You know, I’m beginning my. My sexual or bottoming experiences. I didn’t know what giggles were as well. Um, I had little exercises to keep things tight down there. It’s also great for prostate health. Gay men suffer from prostate issues. Prostate cancer at higher frequency than most of the population. Um, I didn’t know much about dieting. Bottoms diet, what to eat and what not potentially to eat. And days leading up to an encounter. If you’re someone that likes to schedule your encounters. Dick appointments, if you will, as I like to schedule them. I also didn’t know much about sexually transmitted diseases and infections. I think there is oftentimes a misconception that if you’re. You’re on prep, that you’re immune to everything. But there’s. And, you know, prep is an amazing medicine that is allowing us to live a little bit more. I don’t wanna say worry free, but it does bring a little bit of worry away from the bedroom. And then when we add doxy pep into the equation, that also reduces worry. But there’s still a lot out there that we can, we can catch and potentially give to one another. So I think being tested regularly, being honest with your healthcare providers and your testers, whether at the clinic or at another medical facility, being honest about how many partners you’re having, frequency, whether you’re topping or bottoming, any symptoms you may be having, at times that can be embarrassing to share that information with someone, especially if it’s someone that isn’t from the community, you can feel judged. I just made a post on the gay Good about health anxiety and how healthcare providers contribute to that because they overly shame us at times and they don’t use the right words and they don’t come from a place of comfort. Sometimes it feels like they’re coming from a place of blame when it comes to our community. But when it comes to sexual health, I think being tested regularly, speaking openly about what’s going on or not going on is a great place to start. When it comes to being an empowered bottom and taking control and ownership of your body and understanding if you’re using condoms or not using condoms, potential consequences that come with both options and taking ownership of that as well, I think being educated on what’s going around is important as well. When there was the. What’s it called? Monkeypox.

[00:31:42] Michael DiIorio: Mpox.

[00:31:42] Pepper: Yeah, yeah, mpox. When that was going around, I think the gay community did a great job of educating ourselves on what to look out for. Here in Los Angeles, there was testing and vaccinations happening pretty frequently and we were sharing that information with each other, trying to keep each other safe and educated. So I think that goes a long way into being an empowered bottom as well, is sharing the information, you know, with your friends in your community so that we can all do better and have more fulfilling sex and more of the sex that you want to be having.

[00:32:16] Michael DiIorio: Yeah, fabulous. There is a lot out there that people don’t know and that’s something that again surprises me. And again, one of the great things about our sexual empowerment men’s group and other kinds of groups like this is like Piper was saying, when you share information with people, so many people out there don’t know about doxy or don’t know about different vaccines for like HPV and whatnot. Oftentimes it’s because they’re either too afraid to tell their provider that they’re having sex with men, or their provider just doesn’t know, unfortunately, living somewhere where that just is not common. So, yeah, definitely do your research. I love that, that comment and something that came up for me as you were speaking. I was recently traveling in Europe and there was an area that I was in that they didn’t have access to prep. So a lot of people still used condoms quite a bit. And there were some people that were, like, not sure if they wanted to, like, bring up the fact that they use condoms or like, they had almost a bit of, like, shame, like, oh, I have, like, I want to use a condom. Is that okay? And I’m like, no, honey, if you want to use a condom, like, you say, we’re using a condom and either we’re doing it or this is not happening. Right. So that kind of thing is, I think, empowered. Just saying these are my terms in which we’re having this interaction or we’re just not having it at all and being okay with not having it at all, being okay to move on to the next person. So, yeah, that’s another piece is don’t have the shame of even wanting to protect your sexual health. Nothing wrong with that.

[00:33:35] Pepper: Absolutely. Yeah. And I think I’ve come across men and boys sometimes that have made me feel shame for asking questions like, may I ask when was the last time you were tested? Or do you. Do you know your status? And I think if you’re asking in a. A respectful manner, that that conversation is fair game if I’m sharing my body with you. But sometimes I think I’ve been made to feel a little overly cautious, perhaps a little worried, paranoid even, by just trying to have a. An open conversation about sexual health with a partner, whether that was before or after an encounter. And I’m just want to know should, should I take my docs or not? Yeah, that’s really, that’s really it. I think there is still a great deal of shame when it comes to sex in general in the community, especially sexual health in the community. But I think conversations like this, conversations with your friends about what you’re experiencing or saying, hey, have you, have you ever felt this? Have you ever seen this? Have you ever been with a guy in this? They’re important to have and they can be a little awkward at times. But I think as a community, that goes a long way into looking out for each other. And I think empowered bottoms look out for empowered bottoms.

[00:34:51] Michael DiIorio: Yeah. And that’s such a good piece of it is we’re just not afraid to have the conversations and ask the questions. Because the more we normalize these different experiences, even if we have a bit of shame about them, the more we realize, okay, then nothing’s wrong with me. This, this is just something that happens from time to time. Like let’s say he pulls out and there’s a bit of residue on his dick or something. Like it’s easy to have so much shame about it if you think that that only happens to you. Whereas if you talk to other people about it and say, oh, this is something that happens from time to time, even if you douche, it still sometimes happens. Right. So anything where you’re normalizing conversations, having them openly, candidly, without the shame, without the judgment, without the stigma, I think that just helps us all feel empowered as a community about sex in general, regardless of the role.

[00:35:32] Pepper: Absolutely.

[00:35:33] Michael DiIorio: Another piece of it is listening to your body. I think going back to the douching bit. So there will be times where I’ll have a dick appointment and let’s say I’m going to bottom and my body is just like, nope. And option one when I was younger was like, okay, let’s just deal with it. I already said yes, I’m not going to turn back now. Like I feel bad and I don’t want. It’s a very people pleasing mentality. Like, oh, I owe this to him versus now. It’s just like, sorry, this isn’t happening, I’m not ready. So know your body. Don’t you know, feel obligated to do anything. If you get that like obligated mentality, that’s when you need to do that check and say, how am I gonna feel after this is over? I’m probably gonna feel disappointed in myself. Maybe he’ll not have a great time either. Cause you’re not fully present. Like it’s not worth it is when I wanna kind of put out this. If you do something because you feel you have to, it’s not gonna be worth it for anyone.

[00:36:20] Pepper: Yeah, I had a moment like that. I’d say two or three months ago, someone I was really excited to see for the second time and just wasn’t happening. I think beyond just douching, sometimes you get to the bedroom, wherever you’re going and it’s just not happening that day. You’re, you’re not opening up as you, as you thought you would. Some days you’re, you’re a little tighter down there. Sometimes you’re a little looser and that’s Just the body. We have a lot of different factors contributing to that stresses our, Our lives, work, family. I would say definitely try your hardest not to beat yourself up. If it’s just not happening for you that day, you can still have a great time with someone. If penetration isn’t achieved, there’s so many more options. And I think that also leads us into a little discussion on positive framing, which would be another key characteristic of being an empowered bottom. I think sometimes I used to go into a dick appointment fearing, oh, I’m going to have an accident. Even though at that time in my life nothing had ever happened. But I was just so afraid of that, or thinking, I, I’m not gonna perform, or he’s not gonna like it. So I think really training your mind to walk into a situation or an encounter, thinking, you know, I’ve done all of my prep. I’ve. I’ve done as much as I can. I’m going to let go and let whatever happens happens. And if there is an accident that happens, we’re both mature adults that can discuss it, move on, and decide how we want to continue things. I think that oftentimes we get stuck in our heads. As mentioned earlier on, of course, bottoming is a very physical game, but it is a mental game. So watching how you talk to yourself is very important. And I think what goes into that, too, is the energy you’re bringing into the room, whether there’s something you can be listening to that will help soften things for you. If you want Sza playing in the background and that that helps you, then by all means, turn up the album. If you. If wearing a jockstrap is really exciting for you, by all means, you know, do that. Wear what you want to wear. Listen to what you want to listen to. And I think that goes back to what we talked about earlier on, which is advocating for yourself. I think the very first thing we talked about was bringing your own flavor and authenticity into the bedroom. When it comes to bottoming, the more of yourself you can put into it, I think the more successful it will always be.

[00:38:49] Michael DiIorio: And again, that that can change day to day, person to person. Right. It doesn’t mean, like, the what, like you have one way of doing it. Like, at least that’s not how I am. It’s going to be very different person by person and mode by mode. And also why, like, I talk about this a lot on this particular podcast, when we talk about sex, it’s really important to me, and I will always advocate for what is your motivation with this particular hookup, right? It could be something like someone you’re dating. It could be cruising. It could be at a bath house, whatever. It could be walking down the street. But knowing what the motivation is here is really, really good for you and helps us all feel more empowered because you know why you’re doing something. And all I say, there’s no right or wrong reason. You just gotta like your reason. You just gotta like it. That’s it. That’s the only criteria. So are you doing it out of fomo? So are you, you know, in a situation where your friends are hooking up and you’re like, oh, I have to hook up too? Like, is that your reason for it? Are you doing it out of obligation? Cause let’s say maybe you’ve gone on a date with a guy and you know he’s expecting something, but you’re just not feeling it. And, you know, like, now’s the part where he’s gonna want to go home with me after. And that’s from obligation sometimes, at least for me. A big part of my twenties was having sex and hookups to escape feelings like loneliness and sadness. But again, you can still make that choice, but know you’re doing it, which is very different than being unconscious about it. Then there’s having sex for pleasure, which is my favorite. My favorite one, just for the sheer fucking fun of it, because it feels good. And then there’s for connection, you know, there’s someone you know you like. You want to build that intimacy. It’s. It’s really about the connection of the person. It’s very relational, very intimate. And then there’s the bits for adventure, just because I love a little bit of adventure and I love a little cruising moment or finding those, you know, nooks and crannies of the cities and finding some men randomly there.

[00:40:31] Pepper: Ow.

[00:40:32] Michael DiIorio: What. What do you find your primary motivations are?

[00:40:35] Pepper: My primary motivations for sex? Um, I think fun is. Definitely comes into it. I think, oh, wow, it sounds so straight here. Blowing off some steam.

Life can be stressful, so having some. Some silly sex with someone, it can definitely be a great distraction. It can be relaxing.

[00:40:56] Michael DiIorio: Yeah.

[00:40:56] Pepper: I think it’s at times when, to me, sex is really important in relationships. So when dating, I think it’s a great way to get to know someone, establishing trust and intimacy with someone. There’s a ton of different motivations for me. And, you know, sometimes you just want to get railed. You know what I mean? Sometimes you just want to get railed. That’s a Beautiful thing is it for.

[00:41:20] Michael DiIorio: You, similar to me, where I feel free to not answer if you don’t feel comfortable, where it really depends on the person. Like, do you. Do you get your. Like, do you find you’re in either top mode or bottom mode or first mode, depending on who is, like, the energy in front of you?

[00:41:33] Pepper: Yes. Yeah, absolutely. A hundred percent.

[00:41:35] Michael DiIorio: Yeah. It’s very much the same for me. And it’s always surprising or people will do that with me. Like, they’ll think, oh, I thought we were going to do this. And I’m like, no, actually, we’re going to not do that. We’re going to do it this way. And that’s part of being an empowered bottom as well. Right. But by the way, when I say that I’m not making them do anything, it’s. It’s always consensual. I want to make that clear.

[00:41:52] Pepper: That was clear for me, so I hope it is for the viewers as well.

[00:41:56] Michael DiIorio: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Anything else, Pepper, in terms of what kinds of steps we can take or what are the specific things that empowered bottoms do?

[00:42:03] Pepper: Let’s do a little recap of things we’ve discussed so far. We’ve talked about advocating for yourself.

[00:42:07] Michael DiIorio: Yes.

[00:42:08] Pepper: Not being afraid to say, let’s try this. That hurts her. Not allowing yourself to be disrespected. Again. You can be a good boy without being disrespected. Challenging stereotypes and bringing your own authenticity into the bedroom. Having a positive mindset when heading into a dick appointment or into an encounter and owning your sexual health, to me, those are the five pillars. And as cheesy as this may sound, I would just say, have fun with it. You know, this was the whole hour we talked about bottoming, but at the end of the day, we’re talking about putting a dick up your butt. You know, having fun with it, trying new things, not trying new things. When I do yoga sometimes with this lovely woman named Amy, sometimes she’ll say, don’t be afraid to smile.

And sometimes when I’m bottoming, I think of that.

Don’t be afraid to smile, kids. And I’ve noticed kings typically feel better when you have a smile on your face, hopefully.

[00:43:16] Michael DiIorio: So that creepy smile is like.

[00:43:17] Pepper: I wouldn’t say it’s a creepy smile.

[00:43:20] Michael DiIorio: It’s a beautiful smile. Yeah.

[00:43:21] Pepper: Hey. It’s a very handsome, warm, inviting smile.

[00:43:24] Michael DiIorio: That says, keep going. Yeah. Yes, please, please, please, please.

[00:43:30] Pepper: Having fun with it is like what I would end on. I think, going back to a number of examples, when I was younger, I used to put so much pressure. I used to operate from a place of fear. I used to operate from a place of this is what it’s supposed to look like and feel like and operate from a place of I’m here to pleasure him.

Your pleasure is so important. Your sense of fun is so important. Your sense of safety is the utmost important. So have fun. That’s why, again, there’s different motivations. But I think fun can be eased into all of them and should be a part of sex every time.

[00:44:09] Michael DiIorio: Yeah. And you’ll have more fun if you don’t believe that bottoming is in any way anyway, being less than anyone else. It’s really about choosing what feels right for you, choosing your fun, knowing that fun can be different from person to person and that’s okay. And just shamelessly owning, like, this is the fun I want to have. This is how I want to do it, and that’s okay. Not all bottoms are passive. Not all tops are active. This is one thing I want to make sure the viewer and listener takes out of this episode because we just gotta crush those stereotypes. We have to just know what we want and not be afraid to get it. So my call to action for the viewers and listeners out there is next time you’re feeling in the mood to bottom, do it from a place of power. Own it. Don’t feel ashamed that you you want a bottom. Demand what you want and then enjoy every last juicy second of it.

[00:45:00] Pepper: Yes, my action would be for our viewers the next time someone asks you what your role is. If you’re so inclined to share, don’t whisper it. Don’t go.

Say it loud and clear. I may bottom and. And own it. There. It’s fun. It’s. It’s fulfilling and you like it for a reason. So don’t shy away from it. There should be. Don’t self shame yourself when declaring that you’re a bottom. Own it. Put it on a T shirt, Sell it. Rep it.

[00:45:30] Michael DiIorio: Beautifully said, Pepper. Where can our viewers and listeners find you?

[00:45:34] Pepper: Yes, you can find me Hegaygood on Instagram. It is a Instagram channel I’ve been working on for almost five years now, which sounds so weird, but my work really centers around creating content that makes queer people, oftentimes queer men, feeling seen and understood, and really centers on sparking conversations such as this one, conversations that we think about, but we don’t necessarily act on and actually have with others. That’s always been the mission of the page and something I just can’t wait to continue working on.

[00:46:10] Michael DiIorio: Great. And Pepper, I love all your content. You know that. Yeah. Please do check out his Instagram. All right. I want to thank you, Pepper, for joining us today. Thank you to our viewers and listeners for coming along on this ride. If you enjoyed this conversation, please remember that this podcast is viewer and listener supported. So please go ahead and make a donation to the show using the link in the show notes. If you’re watching us on YouTube, all you gotta do is tap that thanks button and it’ll do it for you. You can also subscribe to the early access option on Apple Podcasts to listen to this podcast ad free and get early access to episodes before they are released to the public. All of your support helps us to continue making content for you and support supporting our beautiful community. So we thank you in advance. All right, guys, we’ll see you in the next episode. Bye.