Dating Apps

All right. Hello. Hello, everybody. Welcome to gay men going deeper, a podcast series by the gay men’s brotherhood, where we talked about all things, personal development, mental health, and sexuality today, your hosts are the amazing Michael, the magical Matt and myself Calan. And we are going to be talking about dating apps today because we know all of you out there have been asking about it.

They’re like, what do I do? How do I approach this? I don’t understand what’s happening. How do I stay sane? So we thought it would be a perfect episode for today. And we’re gonna be exploring questions like what’s your best practices and rules of thumb for when using dating apps. How can someone find success using dating apps? What’s the biggest mistake people make while using a dating app.

And then what’s the number one thing. People don’t have displayed in their profile that they should have displayed in their profile. So that’s what we’re going to dig in today. We’ll be continuing the discussions on the last Thursday of every month in the gay men’s brotherhood, zoom Hangouts, where you’ll have your chance to share your own experience. So if you want to be updated as to when we’re going to be having those,

make sure you go into the show notes and just sign up for our email list. We send out email reminders of what we do those so that you can get the direct link sent to you on the day of, so you don’t need to remember also this podcast and YouTube channel is listener and viewer supported. So if you really enjoy what we’re creating here,

you can support us by heading over to our Patrion page, in the show notes and contributing to help support the show. It helps us to continue making content for you and supporting our community. So we thank you in advance for that. Also the gay men going deeper membership doors are open initially open. Yes, we know lots of you have been waiting.

So if you’ve been waiting to join in on more group zooms and going deeper with your personal development, please come and join us in the membership. We have a lot of amazing programming planned for this coming year. In 2022, we are so excited about it. So head on over to gay men, going deeper.com. It’s also in the show notes and register today so that you can join us in the new year with all the amazing,

magical stuff. Now let’s jump into today’s episode. But first I want to read a review from one of our listeners. So here is one from Derek V and Derek B says I’ve dated, but honestly never been able to make anything that lasts longer than six months. I thought I was weird or broken. This helped. And this was from the episode from never being in love.

So if you’ve not heard that episode, I think it was like maybe one or two episodes ago. It’s never been in love. And it was an amazing episode. Lots of people loved it. So without further ado, let’s jump in to the dating apps. I have so many things to say about dating apps. I have a love, hate relationship with them.

I’ve been on them. I’ve been off them. I’ve been on them again. I’ve been off of them again. I loved them. I hated them. I’m sure everybody out there listening has been like, yes, girl, we hear you. So let’s start unpacking this. And I’m going to start off with what’s the best practices and rules of thumb when using dating apps.

And my number one rule is take it all with a grain of salt because so many people put so much effort and energy and like stuff into dating apps. And honestly, the only times I’ve really ever had true success with dating apps is when it wasn’t a forefront thought it wasn’t the first thing. It wasn’t the be all end all. It was kind of like something that I had that I engaged with when I was like very much in a space where I wanted to date or meet somebody,

but it wasn’t like all of my attention was going there. So I made sure that like I had hobbies and I had other things that I was doing. And it was just one of many things that was in my life. Whereas I find a lot of people that can get addicted to them because the, you know, all the gamification and all the stuff that goes on there,

plus you’re getting that validation, that external validation of like, oh, somebody’s matched with me. Or somebody sent me a photo or somebody’s talking to me. And so a lot of the stuff we’re probably going to unpack today is like, kind of separating that from like your self-worth of like your self-worth isn’t coming from these dating apps. You’re bringing yourself to them.

And if somebody else matches, if that energy matches then cool beans. But if it doesn’t also cool beans, because that’s the universe saying this person is not for you. There’s no need to get angry. There’s no need to get upset. There’s no need to lose your shit and go crazy. If somebody blocks you or somebody doesn’t match you or they matched you and then they unmatched you,

it is what it is like eventually you will find somebody. So really curious to know about what your guys’s best practices are when using dating apps. So today we’re going to start off with Matt. How about you’ve jumped in. Okay. I got to start with, or I’ll start with my rule of thumb. Okay. My, I only, only only have one rule of thumb and that is on I’m on Tinder.

That’s really the only app that I use at all. Like, I’ll tell a story of why that is the case, but my rule of thumb is that I want to be giving consent before somebody can have contact with me. I don’t like apps where it’s an open interface and anybody can message me in. Anybody can see my profile, why I like Tinder is because I have to swipe.

Right. And the other person has to swipe. Right. And then that way we’re matched. Right? So then you, you’re not getting a bunch of random messages from people. The reason why I have that rule of thumb is because I went through a really well, several horrible experiences, but I’m going to share the worst of them all. And,

and this was, this happened on Scruff and Grindr, both of them where I was catfished. I I’ve been catfish several times. And, you know, I used to be a lot more naive than I am now. And I used to be like a hopeless romantic, and you know, all this energy of like just being very trusting. And what ended up happening was I got messaged by a guy that was essentially the,

an ideal guy for me. And this person pretended to be somebody for a long period of time. And I ended up finding out that it was a friend of mine, a good friend of mine, who I had been hanging out with. And basically this, this person was extracting information from me and then creating profiles and basically luring me in by catfishing me.

And I ended up finding out because I started to like put two and two together. Like the languaging that this person was using was similar in all the profiles that were being created. And, and then there was the PR person got sloppy because I was sharing things with this person that were only with him that he would only know. And then he was using this information in these profiles and I’m like,

wait a minute. Like, this is so fascinating. So I put two and two together. This went on for a year. So this person was like considered, like, we were like very close and he was catfishing me the whole time. So it was very, very hurtful. I had just gotten out of a long-term relationship. It was an eight year relationship.

I was very wounded and I was, I was healing. I was going through a lot of stuff at this time in my life. And this person just completely took advantage of my vulnerabilities. And so after that, I pretty much, you know, I invited him over to my house and I confronted him in my living room and he obviously denied it.

And then I asked him if he was being honest with me, would he be willing to let, to show me his, his Scruff and Grindr profile so I could see who he was interacting with. And he declined to show me that information. And like, he was like swallowing and his eyes were all like, you could just tell, like, I can tell when somebody is lying,

it’s just very obvious. So, you know, for me, it’s just, and then at that, and then after that, you know, it, it continued to happen. There was just so many cat fishing people trying to get pictures out of me and things like that. So I just created this rule that I’m like, you know what, this is the platforms I want to use.

And I find for me Tinder to be a little bit less about sex and more people that are looking for kind of like a slow down connection and getting to know each other. So, yeah. So there was a lot of jadedness for sure around that. And now, like, I just, I consciously choose not to use those. Like, it’s not so much about,

like, about that being the primary reason. It’s more so just, they’re not really a good fit for me. Those two apps hinges is not bad. I don’t mind hinge and I don’t mind Tinder. Those are kind of the two that I, that I will use because it does require people to be able to be connected before they, before they’re able to talk to each other.

So yeah. That’s, that’s my, yeah, Yeah. That experience Matt, that really fucking sucks. Yeah. It was really brutal. And then this guy was like hardcore sociopath. Like he, there was some major shit that came out after and he just was well, highly narcissistic, highly sociopathic, in my opinion, I’m not a psychiatrist, but I definitely would say that he,

he possessed those personality traits. For sure. So, yeah. Well, I mean, that makes sense. And I agree like hinge and Tinder, we’re going to unpack this over today’s episode, but like hinge and Tinder for me, it’s like, when you look at all the apps, you need to kind of know what you’re getting. Like, you know,

you’re not going to go on Scruff and Grindr, but like, I want a hopeless romantic boyfriend. Like chances are not going to be as high there as if you choose like hinge or tend to where people actually have to put in effort to their profiles. They have to like, you know, let the information be visible and that kind of thing. So,

Michael, how about you jump in and talk to us about your best practices or rules of thumbs. Yeah. Okay. This topic fires me up. I fucking love talking about online dating apps and all this good stuff. Not because I love it, but because they’ve had so much experience with it and it’s definitely something that I think you, you can use as a tool in your own personal development.

Right. And that’s one of the things I love about it. Same with sex. I think like we, we, there’s so much to learn from these things that trigger us in so many ways. So I guess I’ll start off by saying I’ve been using some form of online dating since the days of gay.com. If anyone remembers that or PlentyOfFish, which I think plenty of fish still exists by gate.

I’ll call them like back in the day. That’s what I was using to, to meet people, chat with people. I, I don’t think actually met anybody on gay.com for awhile, but yeah. So, so similar to you guys, I’ve been using them for a long time. Grindr. I believe I’ve been using since they launched in, I think 2010,

I’ve been a grinder user since 2010 on and off, mostly on. So I’ve, I’ve definitely have more experience with that. I agree with things like Tinder and hinge when I was single and looking for like a romantic long-term partner, I found those connections that I met through. There were generally more conducive to long-term relationship, not to say that I couldn’t do that on Grindr as well,

but I chose to show up very differently on Grindr than I did on Tinder. So that was on me, right. I, my pictures on grinder were not necessarily conducive to longterm. The ones on hinge and Tinder are work. So I’ll say, you know, so much, you guys have had some really awesome experiences. I’ve met some of my greatest friends.

I met some super close friends through, through Grindr, through all these apps. I traveled solo for a very long time and I met some great friends. That’s the way I met people. That’s the way I learned where to go, what to do. But on the flip side of that, I’ve also been catfished. I’ve been ghosted a lot. I think I talked on this podcast about the time I showed up for a date and the guy just didn’t show up at all.

I’ve been berated. People have literally like hate shamed me for any number of reasons. And I’ve even been reported. Someone has reported my profile because they were just upset with me for whatever reason. So at the end of the day, I’ve decided on they’re neutral. They’re not good nor bad. They’re just neutral. And, and how I choose to show up similar to,

you know, math’s example of taking it and saying, okay, here’s, here’s what I’m looking for. Here’s what I want here. So I choose to engage. That will dictate my experience of it. And I will say this I’ve also used them as a single person, looking for sex, looking for hookups, looking for dates. And I’ve used them in our relationship as well.

So I have both sides of that. Okay. So that’s my, I guess, history with online dating apps. I just age myself by telling everybody about, get off them. So here are some of my, actually, you know what, I’ll start with my rule of thumb because I have one rule of thumb. Then I have three other kind of best practices.

I couldn’t decide between one. So I’ll share the rule of thumb first, which is treat these apps like a search engine, not as a replacement for dating. These are not meant to replace the act of meeting someone, getting to know them, that whole old fashioned traditional way of dating. I like to use the apps as a search engine. It’s basically like your Google,

your YouTube, you put in there. Okay. Here’s the wide variety, especially with something like Grindr or Scruff, here’s what you have. Here’s the broad range. Choose what you will with it. Right. And I guess same with Tinder and hinge as you’re swiping. So that is definitely my rule of thumb. Use it. What it’s meant for it’s a tool.

It’s not the be-all and end-all of online dating. It should not be the one and only way you’re connecting with gay men, because that’s probably going to lead to a very, very skewed view of gay culture. Okay? So my best practices are, know your intention, know what you’re there for? And this is what I tell people. I don’t care if you’re intent.

Like I don’t care how noble your intentions are. I don’t care if you’re looking to meet someone tonight just for a quick fuck. I don’t care if you’re looking for a long-term relationship, a friend, if you’re just lonely, if you just want to blow your load so you can pass out and go to bed, just know what your intention is and there’s no wrong answers.

What, what I see a lot of people doing is either not being honest with themselves about why they’re there. So what I do when I go over to my phone, I want to go for the app. I try to tell myself, okay, what am I doing? Why, why is Michael calling for this right now? What’s the, what’s the need here.

He’s trying to satisfy. That’s a great thing to do. So know your intention, know your reason why? And just be honest with yourself about it. Of course, even better. If you can communicate that to everyone else out there, because that will save a lot of pain and suffering. The second one is having an exit plan. So if you’re someone who is looking for a relationship or even otherwise,

I guess this still works, just know that again, you don’t want to be there forever. Nobody wants to be stuck in online dating purgatory. So have an exit plan. No, why you want to be there and then realize that you’re going to get out of it, what you put into it more or less. And so if you meet someone and you like them,

move it onto the next thing, like whatever your next phase is, whether it’s getting their number, whether it’s moving it onto something like a social media platform, like Facebook or Instagram, or even going for like an actual date, going for a walk meeting for a coffee, get out of there because we’re not meant to be there forever. Right? And I think what happens to a lot of people is they get stuck in that purgatory because they’re either too afraid to make the move,

to make the ask. So we get stuck. And then that again just leads to a very negative experience being there forever and ever. And then finally, the third one don’t use it. If it’s not for you, don’t use it to take a hiatus. I’ve, I’ve find myself. My issue with specifically Grindr is that I will use it as a means to distract myself.

And I know that about myself. I know that, you know, when I was, when I was working, I would use it because I didn’t want to do my work like in an office. So I’d go in on the office and see who was around. And I worked downtown Toronto. So there were always a lot of people around. So know when to get out and know,

know yourself when, when enough is enough. Right? So turning off notifications is a good one. Cause I find as well, I see a little red Ruddock come up. I’m like, so what message me? This must be the one here’s prince charming that red dot obviously means prince charming has arrived and he’s going to be perfect. And then again,

you just get sucked into the app and keep in mind, these are designed to keep you there, regardless of what they say, they’re making money based on you being there. So all that gamification that that council was talking about is a very real thing. And so we have to kind of be on top of ourselves while we’re using it. So yeah.

So at the end of the day, you don’t know when to not use it. Like that’s really, really important if it’s not for you. If these things tend to take more out of you than give you things and then don’t use it. It is just one tool, my friends, but one tool, our gay ancestors have made connections for many,

many years without the use of apps. We could do that as well. So there’s a lot of other things out there I’m fully supportive of taking breaks, taking hiatuses not knowing when not to use it. And I think it’s really important that self-awareness, I guess at the end of the day, if I had to boil it down, all these things that I talked about was about having self-awareness.

So that’s it. Those are my best practices in rural of, Yes, I love this. This is the conversation it’s just lighting me up and you brought up so many good points, Michael. Cause I completely forgot to mention in mind, like rules of thumb is I have no notifications turned on. I go physically into all the, like into those apps and I turn off all of the notifications so that I only engage with it when I choose to engage with it.

There’s no pop-up saying, oh, you got a message. There’s no like, like red dot saying, oh, there’s a message waiting for you. It’s like when I choose to go into the app after my Workday or on the weekend, or whenever I choose to distract myself, because that’s what I know for myself as true as well as I use it as like a mind board,

I don’t really have a lot going on. You know, why I need to, I consciously know I need to put energy into dating if I want to date. And so that’s what I use it for. But it’s also a distraction tool. Like depending on what app you want to use, you know, so that’s super important if anybody’s having trouble with dating apps and you’re getting stuck on them and they’re like ruling your life,

turn off all of your notifications. It’s an addiction. These are these tools, which are phenomenal, are designed to capture your addictions. And so we need to recognize that and understand it. And in order to break those, you need to physically do things in order to turn off those habits, to create the new habits. So you guys both brought up really great stuff.

How can someone find success using dating apps? Oh, oh my goodness. Well, what you guys had already said is intention is huge for myself. Intention is so important because like I said earlier, I’m probably not going to go on Grindr and be like, my intention is to find a boyfriend on Grindr. It’s probably going to be like, oh,

if I really, really want to date somebody, if I’m in a mood or an head space where I’m going, I think I’m ready to date somebody. I want to, I want to find some B maybe not like a long-term boyfriend or whatever, but I’m very open to that kind of energy right now. I will use something like hinge or Tinder.

Like Matt said, it’s, there’s an energy about those. That’s a very different energy than like Scruff or Grindr or his horn. It’s still a thing I don’t even know. But there’s like, they’re very different intentions, right? And if you want to find success, the tips I got for you fill out your fucking profile, fill out your fucking profile.

Seriously. The amount of profiles. I think it’s worse on Tinder than on hinge. Because when I was really trying to find people to date, I found way more success on hinge because people actually have to fill out the profile and it has prompts. Now I think you can do voice notes as well. So people can like hear your voice and hear your inflections and all that,

which I think is really cool. Yeah. Just fill out your profile. Like it’s that simple, make it fun and unique and interesting. And don’t fill it out. Don’t fill it out. Trying to be somebody that you think other people want, fill it out. Being your goofy, weird, crazy, authentic self. Because honestly, if you think about it and you put out this energy of like,

this is who I am, this is the veneer of who I am and the person meets you. They’re going to know something is up. Even if you start dating and get into a relationship, eventually they will figure it out. That’s kind of the point of dating. Like you get to know each other on a deeper level. So why waste all of that time,

faking it and creating possible like misunderstandings or arguments or shit into the future when you can just nip that all in the bud and it’s yes. It’s snippet in the bud, not the bud nip it all in the bud, right from the get go. It’d be like, Hey, for me, I was always like, Hey, I’m tall, I’m awkward.

And ginger, these are all the weird things that like, I like fantasy books. I like reading like LGBTQ fantasy books. Cause I like to support my people. I enjoy watching Netflix going on walks. I hate going to the gym, like all the things so that I know whoever does swipe right on me is more likely to actually be interested in me for genuinely who I am.

Because if I put up a bunch of photos of like the fittest I’ve ever been in my life, that is clearly not what you’re going to be getting. If I put up this whole thing being like, I love going to work. And like, I love being healthy and doing all these other things. When somebody meets me, they’re going to be like,

oh, this is not who you are. You know? So if you really truly want to find success, as hard as it is just put all night, not all your shit on there, but put your stuff on there. I want to see that because that also makes me go, oh wow, this person is real. Like this person is being honest and I would much rather date somebody like that than somebody who’s like,

I’m the picture? Perfect boyfriend. But secretly I have all this stuff that I’m just too afraid to show you because I know that that’s already going to be so much more work than just the person who’s like, here I am. So that’s my quick little 2 cents on like how to find success. There’s so many other options and so many other things. So I’m really interested to find out Matt,

what yours is. Yeah. Lots of was you just stimulated a lot in me, which was good because I didn’t really have a love for this question. So, but now I do. Okay. So I mostly use Tinder. That’s my that’s my one-off preference. So I have, this is actually kind of falls into maybe some rules of thumb as well,

but it’s like things that I’ve learned that have helped me be successful. So the first thing for me is get clear on what I need, right? Like what do I need and what can I start to identify as in red flags and green flags in the things that I require that I need. So I definitely have been in the dating game like Michael for a long time.

I’m 36. So I, I have a lots of scar tissue to build from. And so I know I, I I’ve, I’ve collected a lot of data. Let’s just say, so I know what it is that I’m looking for. I know what it is that I’m trying to avoid. So some things that I wrote down are things that I’m really mindful of.

I try not to say like blanket them and say these are total truths, but these are things that I’m on. I monitor. So if somebody has a bunch of pictures where there’s no smile, they’re not smiling at all. I see that as a red flag because I like happy jovial. People who smile a lot and it feels like people aren’t smiling,

it feels like they’re hiding something. And same with sunglasses. If they’re wearing sunglasses and all their pictures, it’s like that whole discreet vibe. And I’m like, I’m not into just to discrete dudes, a non filled out profile. It doesn’t matter how amazing or how hot they are. It’s an immediate swipe left because the way I look at it as if they’re not willing to put the time and effort into creating the profile for,

for, to, to get dating starting, it means they’re likely not going to be willing to put the effort into the relationship. Another huge red flag for me is people that are there. Their whole list of things is what they don’t want. And they’re very like sarcastic and kind of rude in their profiles. Like, you know, I don’t want this or I hate Femi guys or like,

they’re just, you know, they’re all about what they don’t want. Immediate swipe left and like social light energy. Like those guys that are all their pictures are on like yachts. And you know, they’re with all these guys with ripped abs and they’re all like circuit parties and stuff. Like, it’s just, for me, it’s just, that’s just not what I want.

And that’s not a judgment. It’s just, I don’t want a party. Boy, I’m feel like I’m kind of entering a stage in my life where I’m wanting like more of a domestic guy, like, you know, where we can like buy a plot of land and grow our own food and build our own Shaq, you know, like that’s the vibe I’m looking for.

So I’m not. So those are a lot of like kind of the red flags, a lot of the green flags that I’m really looking for would be people who are just very authentic and straight to the point. So like, I love a lot of detail in the profile, like where they’re like, yeah, this is what I really want is what I’m looking for.

And they’re cleared. I think that there’s nothing more attractive than a man who knows what he wants, but also leaves room for, you know, like the moment or the universe to inform him that he might desire something else. Right. But not too, too, you know, not to certain leaving a little room for uncertainty is always nice. And I’m,

I’m really, yeah. I think that’s one of the biggest things. Like I’m just really into this whole thing about like people who aren’t people and people who are owning cell phone or ship is so, so important for me because I love it when I, I can get a real sense of who somebody is and that they’re not showing up in the ways that the community has taught us.

We need to show up in order to be desirable because it’s just a, it’s a fallacy, right? It’s a fallacy like what the community has taught us that we want when we actually step into our authentic selves, it’s so different, right? Everybody wants something different. Everybody likes different flavors. Everybody finds different people attractive, which is what makes this world turn right.

And I love that because if we can all stop seeking out these, these conventionally attractive guys and start seeking out people who, you know, meet the, our authentic needs, I think it’ll, it’ll create more, less of like a hierarchy in the gay community because there really is a hierarchy. It’s like a food chain energy. And I think the more and more I become embodied and connect to my authentic self,

the less I, I prescribe to that. And the less I prescribed to that, the less I put that on other people. And then the less they feel it and the less they want to put it on other people. And that’s kind of how we changed the culture of the gay community is we all kind of do our own deconditioning of the things we’ve been told about how we have to show up in the dating realm and then,

okay. So those are just some of the, you know, being able to get really clear on your needs, get clear on your red flags, your green flags, and start to lead with those things. And then, so as far as success, I would say one of the most important things, and I, I try my best to do this.

Like, this is really important to me. I’m not always good at it, but I’m trying my best to get better at it is monitor judgments and biases because on something like Tinder, it’s so easy to just go and like power swipe, right. And just judge somebody based off of the very first picture you’re seeing and not giving them time. So I’m trying to slow down,

be mindful of, of judgments and biases. And I think some of my biases that I’ve been really sitting with for the last two years, specifically, racial biases, age biases, gender expression, biases, like, are they very feminine? Are they not very feminine? And I think the more I slow down and allow energy to inform me then appearance,

I think it’s, it’s helping me connect into guys that are going to be good for me. And that doesn’t necessarily mean romantically. They could potentially become a really good friend because a lot of people that I’ve met on Tinder have we’ve gone on dates and we didn’t vibe romantically, blip, platonically. We had a really beautiful connection. So I just think that I kind of try and keep my mind open and just monitor judgements and biases.

There are normal. And again, I don’t shame myself when I have them because it’s normal for human beings to have them, but it’s, there’s a difference between an unconscious bias and a conscious bias, and we need to really be mindful of them. And then one thing that’s important for me because I do tend to, when I like somebody, I tend to want to speed up things.

I I’m just thought energy. I love when something feels good. I like to move towards it with momentum. And I think for me, I have to be mindful to not overinvest in people until I really understand who they are. And there’s something called the Ram model, which is the relationship attachment model. And it’s looking at ways that we can progress in a relationship when we’re getting to know somebody.

And there are certain factors that have to be in place before you move to the next step. So I’m really trying to honor that. And the first step is to know, to know somebody and really just take the time, right? Like for me, I look at a three-month window bef you know, before I’m going to invest in somebody and actually consider dating them like that’s,

and this is something that I have to do. I have to have that structure because my pattern in my past relationships is to get involved with somebody and project my fantasy onto them. And then I create them into the version of who I, who I need them to be. And they’re not that. And then three months in, I’m like, wait a minute,

you’re this, this, this, and this, like, what the fuck? Right. And then I’m hurt or I’m shocked or I’m whatever. And it’s like, okay, okay. About time to like, change this pattern. So, so that’s where I’m at right now is just really learning how to, like, I’m putting my eggs in a bunch of different baskets and having fun and being like a present moment data,

as opposed to like a future oriented, like, you know, like thinking that things always have to be cumulative right. Where it’s like, no, I can just go on a date with somebody and enjoyed that present moment experience. And maybe I’ll never see him again. And I’m okay with that. Right. Because I’m just loving the moment to be fun and,

and, and have that. So I do think the, the, the simple rule of not over investing in somebody until you truly know who they are, I just think there’s no greater success tip than that for me, at least. And if you’re an anxious attacher or even an avoidant attacher because avoiding catchers, it’s, it’s the same, it’s two sides of the exact same point,

right? Fear of intimacy, fear of abandonment, fear of whatever. I just really think that slowing things down and letting the relationship build itself organically is, is always a good rule of thumb when dating. Yeah. I like that. That was a lot of good juicy stuff. Yeah. Thank you. Lots of scar tissue I’ve learned, Right? Whatever you,

Michael. I think Matt, there, there was a lot there. And I think that notion of slowing down is, is great. Any kind of advice, not just online dating, but I think you’re right when it comes to online, because that world seems to be the more sped up. It’s easy to go faster. So I think that’s a great one to underline.

I would say for me, you know, how can someone find success? I mean, I run entire workshops on this. So for the sake of brevity, I’ll try to keep it. I’ll try to keep it to the main points, but what, what you guys said about a clear profile, you know, that, that is that, that is for sure.

I would say that the number one tip, going back to what I said earlier first, you gotta know what you want though. Right? Know what your own intention is and the ideas of the red flags green flags. So the way I would say that is know what you’re willing, know what you want, the end goal and know what you’re willing to set,

settle for along the way. If anything, some people might say, okay, I really want a long-term relationship, but you know what? I’m okay with having some I’m okay. Going on like 10 dates for states, just so that I can get practice doing that. Or maybe I’ll find a friend, some people are just hell bent on just their goal.

And they’re focused. I’m only looking for this and that’s fine too. So, so know what you’re looking for, know what you’re willing to settle for in the process and then know what, you’re not another thing I, you know, I’ve seen this a lot is especially on Grindr or Scruff, we see the shiny object and we’re like, oh, well,

I mean, I’m looking for a long-term relationship, but just look at this guy, maybe, maybe it’s okay if we just have this, you know, hookup, or we would just do this thing. So it’s about honoring yourself. If that’s okay with you by all means, have, have a good time. But if it’s something that you know is going to detract from your experience,

then honor that. So the next piece is yes, communicating that intention on your profile. This goes to what you guys had said. I like to use the profile as a filter. So the more specific, the more authentic you are, as you guys mentioned, it’s going to draw the right people. And it’s going to importantly repel the wrong people.

This is a good thing. You do not want a hundred notifications. You do not want a hundred matches. You want five solid quality people to be kind of in your, that, that you’re chatting with not a hundred that you’re being like, Hey, what’s going on, got any picks. Like that’s just such a waste of time. So use that profile to be really specific on,

I love callin. You know, you said that about your personality. Yes. Show your personality because you can’t fake that. And the right people are gonna be like, oh my God, you love fantasy books and you hate going to the gym. Like, that’s awesome. Like, you sound like my kind of guy and that kind of connection is going to just go a lot faster.

And you’re gonna have a lot more to talk about. That’s the other thing, when you have a robust profile, you give someone on the other side a lot too, a lot of reasons to message you like, okay, he likes books. He likes us. He doesn’t like that. He wants to travel. And it just makes it easy for me,

kind of the one who’s looking at the profile to say, okay, cool. I can talk to him about all kinds of things and same thing with pics. So, you know, if you are sexy and you’re looking for sexy times, poster, sexy, pics by all means, have a great time. If you’re silly and you have a sense of humor and you want to attract that post,

your funny pictures with, you know, showing your personality and your sense of humor. If you’re artsy show your artsy side, if you’re a professional show, that professional side, I’m all of the above. So my pictures are very wide range of all of that. And I think that’s fun. I mean, for some people don’t wanna be like, oh my God,

this guy’s too much. He’s like, I can’t, I can’t put them in a box and that’s okay because I’m not the kind of person who wants to be put in a box anyway. So, so yeah, definitely use your profile as, as that filter to attract the right people and repel the wrong people. And then when you’re communicating on these ups,

just be present, have that intention, knowing again, a conversation you can lead the conversation. So often I see people kind of just be at the, just kinda respond very passively instead of leading the conversation and asking open-ended questions. If you really want to get to know someone, then get to know them. Or like I said, get to the good stuff and then take it to a date,

take it to something else, whatever your next phase is, whatever that’s, that’s comfortable for you. So yeah, pretty much reiterating what would you, like I said about the profile, use it as a filter. The goal is not, I can’t stress this enough. The goal is not a lot of matches. The goal is a few quality ones.

Yeah. We’re not collecting Pokemon cards here, guys. That’s not the golf ball. I mean, that’s great for your ego if that’s what you want. But like at the end of the day, if you’re collecting Pokemon cards, a case like matching everybody and their dog only because you want to have them fill up your energy, fill up yourself. That’s not truly how you get that.

You have to do the inside work. And that might be a hard hitting truth for some people listening right now. But like, you got to work on your own shit before you can like really go out there. I forgot to mention my last success tip on like our finding success on dating apps is like what Michael, you were talking about. Don’t live on online,

dating purgatory. Like I am a very quick mover in the sense that like, I’m not going to sit and talk to you for weeks and months on end online if we match, or if I’m talking to you and we’re having good conversation very quickly within the first day or two, I will be like, let’s go for a coffee walking day. Let’s go outside to the park.

Let’s go do something. Cause I need to meet you in person because that will tell me way more about whether there will be an actual click or an energy or a spark than any talking online. So I move quickly in that direction because I’m like, I want to get out of that online dating purgatory. I don’t want to just chat to you for hours and days on end.

If we don’t meet up in the next week or two, and then we can make a date like two weeks from now, that’s fine. But like make a date, like make a date and say, Hey, let’s get together and just hang out and see if we even like enjoy each other’s vibes. And I always leave it very relaxed. I always tell the guy I’m like,

it doesn’t need to be intense. It doesn’t need to be whatever. But if you’re not willing to meet me within the first two weeks of talking to each other, then you’re not interested in the same thing that I’m interested in. If that’s the date direction it’s going in. So that’s my last tip is take it off line, take it out of that online dating purgatory and whether it’s a yay or nay,

don’t let it be the be all end, all just rip off the band-aid. So now we’re going to jump into what the biggest mistakes people make while using dating apps are, oh my goodness. Well, we already covered a lot of things because the opposites are like, don’t fill out your profile. Or one of the biggest mistakes that I see is just common decency,

not being a commonly decent human being. So when I say that, I mean, like if I was out and about, and I walked up to somebody and I was like, oh, Hey, how’s it going? Blah, blah, blah, I, or somebody did that to me. I would have the common decency to say, oh yeah,

good. Like, I’d have a little bit of a conversation, but if I’m not interested in you, and it’s very clear that you’re flirting with me or hitting on me, I will make it clear that it’s just like, oh, Hey, I’m very flattered. Thank you so much. I’m not interested. Or I hope the other guy would say that.

And I’m like, cool, no problem. Like, you know, I shot my shot and it wasn’t what it was, but Hey, that’s, you know, onto the next one. What so many people I see online doing is they just leave other people in purgatory and ghosting don’t be that person because it pisses me off about how many gays get so fucking livid and angry about ghosting.

And then they turn around and they do it to everybody else. So if you’re that person who’s listening to this and be like, I hate being ghosted. Okay, well maybe don’t ghost people then, because what goes around, comes around as much as it sucks. I’m that person who I will be very upfront and very clear about saying, Hey, you know,

great meeting you. Great going on that date. I’m sorry. I wasn’t feeling the vibe. You’re really awesome. Maybe, you know, if I’m feeling friends, vibe, I’ll say that, but if not, I’ll be like, you know, sorry. It just wasn’t for me really great meeting you. Thanks so much. Have a good one.

Like make it clear and kind, but don’t just leave it. Open-ended don’t just leave it in a ghosting area because that drives me crazy or not responding. I can understand. Cause I, I don’t look at them during the day at work within a day or two reasonable, leaving it for like a number of days and then showing up like a week or two later being like,

Hey, blah, blah, blah. And pretending like, it didn’t even happen. Like I’m not going to let somebody walk up to the bar or I’m not going to walk up to somebody at the bar and then like have a conversation that like in the middle of a conversation and then they just walk away and then come back like an hour or two later.

And then pretend as if it never happened. It’s like, you literally just walked away from me. It’s the thing online. Like, you don’t need to be like, okay, I, this is why I have to leave. It’s like cool. I’m to tomorrow. Or like do something to notify. Like that’s, that’s normal common decency. And I think that’s really getting lost because of people’s bullshit.

Stop being that person just be a decent human being. Even if the other person on the other end is not a decent human being. That doesn’t mean that you have to stoop to their level. You can be the person who is still a decent human being, because eventually you’re going to find another decent human being and you’re going to be like, oh my God.

You’re amazing. So yeah, that, that would kind of be some of my biggest mistakes is just not being a decent human being and not following your own rules. If you don’t want to be ghosted, don’t go as people. If you want to find decent human beings online, be a decent human being online, regardless of what other people are doing.

What about you guys? What about you? Who wants to go first? I’m going to say Michael, this time. Let’s go Michael, first on this one. Yeah. That’s a great one. Cal, and then I think it’s so funny. I don’t know if it’s just a Toronto thing cause we both live in Toronto, but it is an international.

Okay. Is that okay? Because that happens all the time. I’ve been to like 80 countries over 200 cities. It literally is international. Yes. The amount of people that I’ve seen on the street and I’m like, Hey, and they’re just like turn around. I’m like, okay, sure. That’s fine. Yeah. I think, I think it’s easy online and we know this to not have a common decency.

I, I truly do believe that if people were, were meeting in person, they wouldn’t have the guts to, to treat people like that. But because it’s online, it’s so much easier at any rate. That was a really good one count. Thank you for that PSA about being fucking decent. Thank you. Okay. So what was the question?

What’s the biggest mistake. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So pretty much the opposite of everything I just said, which would mean like, you know, don’t pretend the calendar, you said this don’t pretend, don’t show up being this version of you. You think you need to be to attract someone cause that’s not gonna work. It’s gonna backfire. That’s a huge one.

Me, I will say I’ll speak personally. I think my, my biggest personal mistake was using it as a tool to numb my emotional pain. So for me, that was after a breakup I, I was using Grindr has my sort of means to get over the guy and it resulted in a lot of sex, but it resulted in even more loneliness and feeling more isolated in that,

in that instance, because I was not tending to the wounds that needed to be healed. So in that way I was not using it in the right way. I was, I was misaligned with my intention. What I really needed was to focus on myself. But I was doing was trying to get this healing from, from an app. And that just,

that’s not what the app is there for. So, you know, it of goes back to what I said earlier about asking yourself, why am I reaching for this right now? What I’ll notice is yeah. When I don’t want to work when I’m kind of like, I don’t want to do this, I’d rather see who’s online. That’s how it looks today.

Sometimes, you know, it’s when I’m, if I’m alone and I’m like watching Netflix, I’ll be like, okay, I’m kind of lonely. Like, let’s see who else is around. And we can kind of watch Netflix together while we’re chatting on an app. So it kind of relieves a bit of loneliness. So just be aware of it and,

you know, realize that the app is there for a lot of different reasons and, and ask yourself whether it’s really serving, serving the purpose. And then another one is a lot of people hate apps and I get it. I hate them too. Sometimes. You know, like we talked about normalizes, ghosting, normalizes, shitty behavior, normalizes racism,

just normalizes a lot of things that we don’t really want to see. But there are a lot of people who are like overly, I’m going to say angry at the apps. And then I just say like, then stop using it. Right? Like then just get off. Like I think, I think that’s a sign that maybe you need to take a break if you’re really,

if you’re really getting that anger about it, then just sign off for a little while. Right. I, I equate it to going to a buffet. Like we go to a buffet and you don’t yell at the restaurant because there’s food items that you don’t like, like how dare you have spare ribs at this buffet, blah, blah, blah. It’s like,

fuck, dude. Then just don’t look at the spare ribs and go eat the choline, like whatever you want. So I think that’s something else. People just getting really upset and then using that experience to project and generalize about gay people all over the place and like gay culture in general. And when I ask people, there’s a lot of people that I talked to that,

I mean, I love being gay. I talked to this a lot and I love it. I think the culture is fucking awesome. For the most part, we have a lot of work to do, but overall I love it. And people will argue with me and they’ll always go back to dating apps and I’ll say, do you have, what are your connections outside of connections with gay men outside of talking to them on Grindr?

And there really isn’t any, so that’s a fallacy. I see a lot of people do using the apps. And in saying that that’s what gay culture is. I would say it is, it is definitely a piece of it. Absolutely. But it is not the be-all and end-all and end all. And if you are unwilling to take yourself out of that comfort zone,

if you’re unwilling to see that there are, there are absolutely people on these apps that do want what you want. They are looking for connection. They want to meet someone fucking awesome. But yes, you have to also take the step forward. You have to show up and be you, you have to show up and put your self forward. And I know that’s very scary.

It’s very scary to show up and like put yourself out there to an entire world and they’re going to judge you and they’re going to say, oh, he’s too fat. He’s too old. He’s too this, but there is going to be someone out there who’s like, oh my God, this guy sounds so fucking cool. I get a message and say,

hi, you have to have a little bit of that hope. And if you don’t that’s okay, just put the app away or don’t use it. Like I said, lots of other ways to meet people out there. So yeah, those are my, I think those are the biggest mistakes is getting swept up in it in a negative way, which just serves to,

you know, ruin your entire perception of gay culture. How about you, Matt? Yeah. You guys covered a lot. I think I’m gonna, I’m gonna kind of go the route of letting the fear of rejection motivate too much of our behavior. And I think that shows up in a bunch of different ways. I think, you know, the first one would likely be like people pleasing,

right? So we’re trying to be everything to everyone, right? So it’s like, instead of really owning who you are and being authentic, it’s like, I’m going to be a little bit of this little bit of this, a little bit of this so I can meet all the needs so I can get those a hundred notifications notifications and feel important and feel valued.

Right. And I think that’s just like an underdeveloped or an undervalued sense of self, I think. And I think that’s really motivated by, by people not wanting to feel rejection from other people, but there’s the flip side of that, which is not wanting to reject people. And I’ll be very honest. That’s one of the reasons why I don’t have an open platform or an open interface where people can message me because I don’t like doing what Callen said.

I don’t like being that guy. That doesn’t message people, but I’d also don’t want to be the person that’s having to constantly reject people. Because for me it does bring up some of my people pleaser stuff and I don’t like rejecting people. So I think that it’s, I think it’s important to, to make peace with the fact that we have to reject people in dating and we have to really be clear on what we want and,

but we can do that. And I think as I’m getting older, I’m learning how to do that with more tact and grace and sensitivity to other people that, you know, a lot of gay men are really sensitive to rejection. And I think it’s important for us to find ways to still speak our truth, but do it in a way that allows people to kind of save face and not feel like that there some ugly,

horrible monster. So, and I think that I missed, I missed a rule of thumb actually on Tinder. And I wanna, I wanna make this a PSA because I think more people need to know this. I have a rule where if somebody matches with me, I would prefer that they messaged me. And if I’m matched with them, I’ll mess.

It I’ll message them. And I always do on Tinder when you swipe. And it says, it’s a match. There’s a little box where you can comment. I’ll just say, Hey, how are you right away? Like right away. Because what ends up happening is I think so many of us fear rejection, but it’s like, I’m going to wait until they messaged me.

So I know that they want me more. Right. And it’s like, if you’re playing that game in dating, you’re never going to meet somebody. Right. It’s like, you’re waiting for them to make the first move. They’re waiting for you to make the first move. And being timid in dating is not going to get you what you need. Right.

I just really think we need to really own that. So yeah. I just, I just think that that’s, you know, in all of these things that I’m talking about right now are connected to rejection. What is your relationship with rejection? And you know, all of us create a lot of content, not in our men, not only in the membership,

but in the brotherhood, we create a ton of content on how to deal with rejection, consciously, how to this sort of things. And I just think that’s a really important part of, of dating is to be at peace with the fact that you will get rejected and you will have to reject. That’s just part of it. And knowing that the universe is always using rejection as a tool to bring us closer to what we’re in alignment with.

And the more we understand that the less rejection has to be this big, scary thing. So I’m almost at a point now, and I’m really proud of myself. I’ve done a lot of really good work in this space where rejection doesn’t really bother me anymore because I just know that, okay, this person’s rejecting me because they see something in me. That’s not in alignment to them.

So eventually I’ll see that too. I just don’t quite see it yet. And then I, that’s a way for me to just to release it and trust that yeah, there just wasn’t alignment. That’s really all it comes down to. It’s nothing about me. It’s not, it’s not that I’m a horrible person or I’m ugly or I’m this, or I’m that,

it’s just the alignment wasn’t there. And it’s an easy way to resolve your relationship with rejection. If, if that’s something that you struggle with. So, Hmm. I love love, like I was screaming in my head when you’re talking about it. I’m like, yeah, because like, Hey, I’ve lived by Bernay, Brown’s clear as kind unclear is unkind.

As much as it might suck to be the person who’s doing the rejecting, it’s like, I’d rather be clear and kind with you. And if you take that as unkindness, okay, that’s, that’s your stuff. But I know I’m being more kind to you by rejecting you politely and like being kind about it, then leading you on and ghosting you and making you fall in love with me because I’m too afraid to be like,

I don’t really like you in that way, but I’m too afraid to just, you know, say what needs to be said. So I love that. And then also about the fucking response box I drove, oh my God, this is why I had to get rid of Tinder. Because like so many times I’d match people. And I took the,

if, if I matched you and it pops up and it goes, oh, it’s a match. I took, the onus is on me to reach out and say, Hey, you know, not like, Hey, we matched yay. But like, be like, Hey, how’s it going? But if you do that to me, and then you just leave me hanging,

that goes back to my being a commonly, like just a decent human being, just like, oh, you were the one who did the matching then match. But it holds, it goes back to what you said. Like they play the, oh, well I can be, I want to be chased because then I don’t need to be afraid of rejection because you’re chasing me.

And like, I’m, oh, I went through this recently where it’s like, the person just never took the time to re like message first and all this and be like, oh, I’ve been told that a lot. And I’m like, yeah, it’s because you’re afraid of rejection. So you’re constantly getting people to chase you because then that way you don’t ever have to be the one being rejected.

Which I mean, yeah, fair. Hey, if you don’t ever chase, you’re never going to get rejected because you’re the one who’s the, ball’s always in your court, but you’re also not going to get very far doing that. And it sucks, but Hey, and I don’t mind chasing, I know that there’s like an innate, like, energetic thing about like being chased and chasing and like in the gay community,

it can get a bit blurry because it’s not like in the, the hetero normative narrative of like a man chases, a woman, that’s kind of how things play out so it can get confusing in the gay community. And I don’t mind chasing, but there has to be a reciprocation, like an honest reciprocation where it’s not like I’m constantly the only one messaging you and you only respond.

If I message you like, no, I’m not into that. I’m looking for more of a balance. So fucking love what you guys just said. Okay. I, and I I’m the opposite. I’m the opposite. I love to chase. I prefer being in the driver’s seat. I am totally okay. Reject me a thousand times. No problem.

Like I think that’s, I think that’s a good thing because I know what I’m learning, listening to you guys, as some people prefer to not have that. And since I’m okay with that, like I just enjoy being the instigator. The I enjoy, I will always message first similar to you guys. Like why not? I have nothing to lose.

So it’s kind of fun. It’s just, that’s an interesting thing though. Like I’m just picking up, like, some people want to have that more passive being chased rule for a variety of reasons. And yet here I am the opposite. It’s interesting too, because that cannot be a red flag for me. Like if somebody doesn’t put themselves out there,

how are they going to develop a tolerance to rejection? Right. And in, in a, in an intimate relationship, it’s really interesting because you you’re, you’re constantly rejecting each other. If you’re, if, if my partner wants to have sex and I don’t, I have to reject him. Right. So it’s like, somebody’s willingness to put themselves in at the risk of being rejected.

Tells me a lot about how they’re going to show up in my, in the relationship with me. Right. So I do think that’s really important guys to remember, like, if you’re out in the dating world, the only way you can develop a tolerance to rejection is by putting yourself out there and taking the risk, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

I’m like you, Michael, I don’t mind getting rejected. Like it sucks, but like, I’m like, okay, well, I’d rather because I know, I know if I don’t put in the work, it’s not going to happen. You know? Like, and it’s, but I also find too that my very easy confidence that I’ve built, it didn’t come easy,

but I built it that is perceived as confidence from another side. And that also very much intimidates people. And I find that a lot of the time they get so intimidated by it. They’re like, you’re very confident, you know what you want. And because they’ve not done the work to know what they want, then that’s like, which again, to me,

I’ve had to process, oh, my alarm is going off my fire alarm. Sorry, everybody I’ve had to like process. I have to process that because I used to think it was just me getting rejected. But then I realized, oh no, this is their stuff. Like they haven’t done the work like me. This is the universe protecting me saying like,

no, this isn’t the right person. So we’re coming up close on the end here. I think we have one more question, a quick and easy one. And I’m going to say, what is the number one thing? People don’t have displayed in their profiles that they should have displayed in their profiles. And I put this in very specifically. So I’m interested to see what you guys say,

but for me, there’s a fact of the matter of the gay community. There’s different roles. I don’t love determining people by those rules, but there’s tops, there’s bottoms. And there’s everything in between those verses I’ll, it’s going to be really hard for two tops to be in relationship long-term it can work definitely, but it’s definitely going to be a bit more difficult and the same with two bottoms.

And I know that for myself, I sit in a verse category for me. I can’t foresee myself being in a long-term relationship, like a very happy long-term relationship with somebody who will only be a bottom or only be a top. So this fire alarms driving me crazy. Cause it goes off for like one second and I’m like, oh God. So for me,

it’s, it’s important information for me to know, because as lovely as you are, as amazing as you are, it’s not romantically in the bedroom going to work out. And that’s a very important aspect for me in my life. So even just a quick little arrow up arrow down, both arrows going both ways has made such a difference in my world when I’m in the dating apps,

because I’m like, oh, this person, I read the profile. Oh, they work. And they’re going to work out that way. Perfect. Like, this is like, let’s invest in this. Let’s go on a date. Let’s see what’s happening. But if it’s not going to work out, like if I know, like if you’re a strict,

like this is the only thing I’m ever going to do, I know that I’m not going to be sexually fulfilled for the rest of our lives together, if that’s a fact of the matter. So for me, that’s a very important thing to have. What do you guys have? One, one thing that should be, that needs to be in the profile that makes it a success for you guys or makes it like something that you need to know.

You go Michael. Cause I don’t know. Okay. I will say too, to add to that Kellen, in addition, people who maybe aren’t interested in anal sex, that’s a whole thing as well. People might not even want that at all. Or they get off on other things. So, you know, that helps you. But what I was going to say for me is kind of going back to what we said already,

which is having a very robust profile that’s that is authentically you. That gives people some meat from which to get to message and give them something to go by. So often I see blank profiles and I’m like, well, I don’t, I don’t fucking know if I’m going to message you. Like, there’s nothing to go with here. Like maybe one photo.

I like to have a robust set of photos and a profile that gives me something. Even if it’s just something silly, then I know, okay, cool. This guy is silly. Even if it’s like a link to their website or to their Instagram where I can learn more. Just I think a lot of people show up and there are be too scared to show up.

So they show up with very little and not just as the opposite haphazard intention gets you haphazard results every single time. Yeah. I still don’t know. But I think, you know, to second, wait, what you said, Collin, I think it’s important. But I also do know that like the gay community, like there’s this whole idea around like the top is at the top of the food chain and the bottom is at the bottom of the food chain.

This is how we’ve been conditioned. I think I’m learning to uncondition that like I no longer see it like that. Right. So I’m able to own who I am more easily, but I do think there’s guys out there that still buy into that. So they’ll put the arrow up, but then you get into a relationship with them and they’re like, well,

I kind of like bottoming a little bit. Right. Or they’ll all right. So it’s like, just really be the part of, for me learning about being authentic is like letting the moment in for me. So I don’t say I’m a top. I don’t say I’m a bottom. I don’t say I’m verse. I don’t say I’m anything. I just let the moment in for me,

because a person’s body could be calm and that person’s energy can make me want to be something. Right. I’m very malleable. So I do think that it’s just, yeah, like try not to let shame be the reason why or image ego. Try not to let those things be the reasons why you’re building your profile, like get really authentic and just own who you are.

Don’t be afraid of it. Right? The more you own who you are, the more you’ll attract who you need. I think that’s important. So yeah. I can’t really think of anything to be specific, but I just wanted to make that comment nice. But if you do know you’re a strict bottom or you do know your restrict top and that’s like your,

your true, authentic sexuality then yeah. Fucking own it because I want to know. Yeah. I need to know like, I, I, I like all the alarms to stop going off. I’m so sorry. Listening. I Hope It’s like, I’m just like, I’m getting text messages from my roommate being like, what the fuck. Anyway. Anyways,

we’re about to wrap up today’s episode. I think it was really good. I think there’s still so much to unpack here. We could have gone on for so long, but we have come to the end here. So is there anything else that you guys want to throw out there before we wrap up today? Nope. I’m good. Awesome. All right.

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